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RGE Launches the Peterson Institute for International Economics Monitor

Following the great success and popularity of the Finance & Markets Monitor, Emerging Markets Monitor, U.S. EconoMonitor, Global Macro EconoMonitor, Asia EconoMonitor, Latin America EconoMonitor and  the Europe EconoMonitor RGE has just launched a distinguished and highly prestigious blog: the Peterson Institute for International Economics Monitor.

Starting today March  18th a distinctive group of academic economists, experts, former and current policymakers and market practitioners will blog regularly on this new RGE blog and provide their insights and views on:

- the major global macroeconomic issues and policy questions in the global economy, both from the point of view of individual countries and from the perspective of the most important global macroeconomic questions in the global economy;

- the major finance, banking and markets debates and issues in individual countries and markets and in the global financial markets including the important policy issues that the recent U.S. and global financial crisis and volatility have brought to the surface;

- the important economic, financial and policy issues – especially the macroeconomic ones – faced by Asia, both as a region and in individual countries.

We are thus very happy and honored that such a distinguished group of experts will have a regular dialogue on the major economic, financial and policy issues and debates regarding the global macroeconomy, finance and banking and major financial markets and the Asian-Pacific economic region.

RGE Monitor is thus expanding its leadership role as the key forum where the most important economic, financial, policy and geopolitical issues in the global economy and financial markets are being discussed and debated on a continued basis. We invite you to start visiting our new Peterson Institute for International Economics Monitor.

255 Responses to “RGE Launches the Peterson Institute for International Economics Monitor”

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

From JesseThe Hypocrisy of Barack Obama, Tim Geithner and Christopher DoddThis issue of the AIG bonuses raises concerns about conflicts of interest since the Financial Products Division of AIG was a large contributor to both President Obama and Senator Dodd.It also gives fuel to the speculation that the retnention bonuses being paid to the AIG executives, some of whom have already left, are ‘hush money’ over the details of the payments of enormous sums of bailout money to politically connected businesses such as Goldman Sachs, who are also substantial contributors to both parties.True or not, the failure of the Treasury Department to…http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2009/03/hypocrisy-of-barack-obama-and.html

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

AIG bonuses is just a drama. Words and poetry is where Obama plays the main street, and action is where Obama plays the wall street. How could they be outraged by 100-odd million of bonuses when they have thrown 160 billion in this bottomless pit. I guess Obama has stopped appreciating the intelligence of the average American. The most hilarious thing of the whole episode is that they said they will deduct “160 million from the next bail-out of AIG”. So, they’d be throwing another 50-60 billion at AIG soon, and to fool the public they will deduct 160 million of money. Besides, what difference would that have made, because 160 million of bonuses have been imparted ultimately, and the bail-outs run as long as AIG burns money. You can pull the right ear or the left ear, but the effect is the same.

Brett in ManhattanMarch 18th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

I’ve been amazed by the arrogance of AIG throughout this debacle. I get the feeling AIG doesn’t realize it’s a bankrupt company being propped up by the American taxpayer.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

On this post:This is great news! Peterson and his gang of merry men are a welcome addition to the RGE fold. I’m glad to have another site to bookmark!

MorbidMarch 18th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

The American Taxpayer has an 80% stake in AIG. With that much say on the board of directors why can’t the bonuses be rescinded since obviously we didn’t approve.

AnonymousMarch 18th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

Just in the Fed is expanding its balance sheet, printing presses just put into high gear!! Dollar getting hammered, shit is hitting the fan

AnonymousMarch 18th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

Gold Rocketing back up! Wow! Fed buying 750B agency backed mortgage. Fed buying buying treasuries,..Gross,..”Inflationary implications”,..

Matthew G. SaroffMarch 18th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

Great…..Another venue for a man who has been trying to kill Social Security for decades.

AnonymousMarch 18th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

Dollar down over 2.5%! This is the Weimer experience at its finest. Santelli,..”The Market is not the pricing force,..I find that rather disturbing.”

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

If you think they won’t find an analogous process to print in euroland, your dreaming. We are in the land of competitive devaluation. Only gold will remain unscathed.

ALAMarch 18th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

Stocks are going green. They are only adjusting for inflation, no real gains. We need 2 more mirrors and another smoke grenade please.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

“I guess Obama has stopped appreciating the intelligence of the average American.”The “average Amrican” is worse than a DONKEY. Average American has no brain, no intelligence … zippo. Otherwise, how the hell any “average intelligent American” could have voted for a community organizer? Not for a seat in a local town city council — but the the most prestigious office on the planet earth!Average American is a fool. No more proof needed after they voted for this Fraudorama.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

Stay tuned … the 2008 stock bubble burst will be followed by a 2009 stock bubble. American economy cannot survive without a bubble … doen’s matter which class … any asset class will do. American economy cannot withstand with the help of asset bubbles.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

Exactly. But they don’t actually want to, just to create this public melodrama and play around with words with the American people.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

So, basically, the make-do solution has been adopted of throwing good money after bad. It is just plain common sense– the potential of the economy will not be reached for decades. Vaast swathes of US bussinesses will become zombies. Growth will not re-emerge for a long, long time although in the short to medium term a large contraction may have been avoided. This is a hefty trade-off and the goverment has no right to decide who should benefit and how much— the goverment is the largest player of this “community service” of the “greater good” by setting targets of inflation, and thus forcing the prudent saver to become the gambler.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

Well, it makes sense. The depression charts show two bubbles being burst. In my mind, the bursting of this second bubble will imply a depression. If this second bubble doesn’t burst, then the US will recover soon, but at the expense of sacrificing a decade or two of growth at potential.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

I am the biggest fool in the world. I was very well aware of the fact that a countertrend bear rally was in the offing, barely as long ago as last week Monday. But there was no signal of the slightest degree that a rally was imminent. Is this not a casino? The Citi and Morgan issued statements that they’d started making money, and markets rally. Big O, Helicopter, The Tax-cheater, The Gay in the Senate, that Fatso Summo in the WH, and such ilks, issue statement after statement … and the markets rally. Should I have given my money to this market just before such senseless and meaningless statements were issued? My intuition said, NO, and I did not. Now I have missed this 20% countertrend rally. Am I a fool? Yes. Should I beat myself? No. Let the fools enjoy this countertrend rally.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

Miss America,Well done. I can tell you’ve put a lot of thought into your theory. As a non-economist, I’m not able to offer an educated critique, but I can say your arguments were well formed, and your thoughts well expressed.Kudos to you.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

would somebody kindly educate me as to what has happened today? I see the market go crazy and the dollar get killed – all because the FED says they’re going to buy some Treasuries.I’m no economist, nor an investor, so I don’t understand what occured. Can someone spell it out in simple(ton) terms?

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

The US Fed is now buying US Treasury bonds – since no one else will buy them… essentially printing money out of thin air to fund the $2 or $3 Trillion yearly deficits now… this is day 1 towards hyperinflation…

thinmanMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/211012/Geithner-Caves-on-AIG-Bonuses%2C-Defends-LiddyGeithner Caves on AIG Bonuses, Defends Liddy”Tim Geithner is now completely on the defensive. In a long letter to Nancy Pelosi, he explained how and why he approved the AIG bonuses (troubling) and described a plan to “recoup” them. The letter will not likely stop the growing chorus of criticism that may well drive Geithner out of office.Geithner’s new plan will not “recoup” the bonuses at all: It will merely reduce the amount of the next taxpayer handout to AIG from $30 billion to $29.835 billion. This is not likely to quell the outrage: What most people are angy about is that AIG paid $165 million of taxpayer money in “retention” bonuses to executives who blew up the firm (many of whom aren’t at the company anymore).The more troubling part of the letter, though, is Tim Geithner’s description of his own approval of the bonuses. He says he registered “strong objections” and then asked for a written legal analysis of why the bonuses had to paid. This does not sound like the behavior a man who has the balls necessary to stand up to the many constituencies that want to roll right over him right now (which is the kind of man we need during this crisis). It sounds like the behavior of a man who is already thinking of how to defend a decision he knows is a bad one.”People are saying Geithner’s in trouble – I disagree. If Obama were to throw him off the bus right now, every enemy of the man would smell blood – it would be a capitulation of the highest order.Incompetent or not, Geithner’s our man – care to disagree?

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

and eventually, dollar denominated debt will worth less in long term. watch out for Treasury and Agency to do it inevitable decline as it priced in weak currency. initial strength in USA debt should be used to sell.

PeteCAMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

To K in Texas AND Others Who Are ConcernedK posted the following on the last thread:”$2 trillion more for TALF tomorrow. How is this “loan” to purchase toxic assets w/a Federal guarantee to cover potential losses different from just giving away money, or creating a “bad bank”? … maybe I’m missing something? Any chance this will trip “Pete’s Limit Of Impossibility”, or will it slip by due to lack of publicity?”And for those just joining in … my “Pete’s Level of Impossibility” refers to that psychological limit where global investors finally have HAD ENOUGH of the US debt accumulation.So here’s my answer …Actually K in TX, I think we’re pretty much there right now. Yes, RIGHT NOW.How do you know when a ship is sinking?Picture this.You’re a passenger and you notice the bow of your ship seems a little low in the water. So you run downstairs and see that the ocean is actually pouring in through one of the front portholes. And you exclaim … “Oh my goodness, this can’t be happening!”. Just then the ship’s engineer comes bursting in, and says in al oud voice … “Ohhhhh, that’s nothing! You should see all the water coming in at the stern !!!”So, when you turn to Bloomberg and the news says that the Fed is planning to buy about $2 trillion in new assets, you can catch the full meaning. YES, the Fed has become the Bad Bank. In a desperate attempt to float these two insolvent banks (BoA and Citi), that’s where we are up to now. The Fed is throwing around trillions of dollars on unassigned debt. Debt that can in all probability never be repaid.The situation speaks for itself.Go back to the previous thread and look at my comments about the foreign holders of T-Bills. At some point pretty soon now, these people are going to have to get out. Out of US assets. Otherwise there is too much risk of a decline in value due to the US dollar sinking. Naturally, when they do pull out, the dollar sinks even more. So the smart ones – are the people who get out early.All of this means that a flood of global money is going to pour into a new asset class – that is judged to be the new “safe haven”. Somewhere, a new asset class is about to go up in value – in a big, big way.Let me close by offering a really good quote that I saw from the folks at Casey Research lately. It’ doesn’t matter whether anyone happens to think about precious metals (or not). This is not about that. It’s a great little piece of advice about life. Here it goes …”Imagine if eight years from now you could step into a time machine and zip right back to this very moment … What would you do? … Whatever you do, don’t be complacent about what’s coming. We are long past the point where doing nothing is an option.”That’s a really great statement.Because it gets to the heart of the matter. Knowing what America MUST be like in a few years – what would we do … to prepare for it right now? That’s what we should all be thinking about, and acting upon, today.PeteCA

Brett in ManhattanMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

Don’t sweat missing this rally. The only way you could’ve caught it was with a lucky guess, and, that’s no way to make money in the long run.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

Octavio,Welcome back! Haven’t seen your name around for a bit. Weren’t you travelling? Any good stories?

PeteCAMarch 18th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

Ohh and by the way. Take a look at how the US dollar and gold reacted today – after the Fed’s statement.PeteCA

BrianMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

As much as I agree with you on general principle, I think that your assessment of timing is off just a bit.It was clear that a stock market rally of this magnitude would impact treasury auctions such that the Fed would be required to step in. I posted about this several months ago. As investors return to stocks, buyers of treasuries decline, and there is no other choice for the Fed.To the extend that I believe the stock market is not in a true rally (duh), and that only when the stock market flatlines will an equilibrium be established between stocks and bonds and “sideline money.” Therefore, I propose that this dollar decline and turbulence is basically a head-fake.Don’t get me wrong, the day of reckoning is close at hand, but when the stock market returns to bear mode, money will again flow into treasuries, debt will be destroyed, deflation will have one or two final surges, and the dollar will at least hold its own – perhaps gaining in spite of the moves by the Fed.It is my contention that only when the stock market is finished with its final major move down that the dollar collapse and hyperinflation will begin in earnest. My best guess is that it happens sometime in the 4 month time-frame, give or take.Still, the moves today are an obvious foreshadowing of things to come.(On a side note, PeteCA, back in 1987 crash, I was a kid just starting to invest. I used to fantasize about what I would do if only I ever got a time machine. Turns out, I figured out just how to invest for that kind of event, and this time around, I saw it coming and invested exactly so – with long-dated far-out-of-the-money puts on the S&P 500 index. Turns out I didn’t need that time machine after all, just patience, as history repeated itself. Now, of course, we are in uncharted territory…)–Brian

thinmanMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

Pete,But this is like playing poker with the mob. Once you’re in the game, you’re in until you’ve lost your money, your dignity, and quite possibly, your life.What you’re proposing is the rational response to what is occuring in the States -but as we’ve all seen, what actually happens is more often than not *irrational*.I think you’re right – there will be a tipping point. But I’d be willing to wager that quite a few of the countries wrapped up in the dollar will be willing to ride this boat down to the depths of Davy Jones’ locker rather than risk upsetting the Godfather…

NoviceMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

Like the previous poster I am a knucklehead when it comes to understanding the ramifications of the Feds newest move to buy treasuries. Will this lead to hyperinflation??? I understand that this could cause foreigners to dump their holdings, but where will they go? The Euro?? Is this move strategic to the coming G20 meeting in London on April 2, perhaps to introduce some new asset, a new global currency?Just wondering

Octavio RichettaMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

I went to Patagonia a couple weeks ago. Awesome sights! Lake Alumine, Villa Peheunia: http://www.villapehuenia.org (I got the tip from a friend who has a cabin there). Forget Bariliche, San Martin de los Andes; those places are too touristy.Good stories? I turned off the EPS system in my van while driving on gravel (a big mistake)and almost rolled over!I just finished my taxes so I will try to post more frequently. We are now preparing to leave Argentina on April 03 until early October at which time I will really go under…

PeteCAMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

Brian:No way to know exactly what happens. The final “crash” might actually be a series of a few big adjustments. Even the Titanic took a little while to go down completely. Will some of the (T-Bill) rats desert the sinking ship today? Let’s watch and find out. Very much appreciate your posts!PeteCA

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

The way I understand it is that they have officially decided to monetize the debt..hence it will be massively inflationary….Austerity measures are only for Latin Americans…we’ll pay through inflation.Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong…

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

Per the Drudge ReportTHE REAL AMERICAN IDOL: OBAMA SETS PRIMETIME NEWS CONFERENCE, TUESDAY, MARCH 24, 8:00PM ET… DEVELOPING…The way this guy likes the camera, he should’ve been a movie star. Then he could be Reagan Jr.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

Obama to make history with Leno as he becomes the first sitting president to appear on chat showMaybe he’s angling for a new career when the mob runs him out of office…

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

No, Honcho Ben doesn’t print money … he simply adds zeros on the right-hand side of the balance sheet.

SNSMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

it’s funny that only now people are getting incensed by a trifling sum for bonuses given the stratospheric bailout amount. at least the idiocracy is finally mad……

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

not inflationary yet as mark-to-market values still plummeting so overall deflation still in force but once that tapers off, likely to be big time hyperinflation…

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

THE FED END GAMEby Mikkel Fishman3/18/2009People are rightly outraged about the AIG bonuses [um, why not the Merrill Lynch ones that were far bigger and possibly involved outright fraud?] but the amounts involved in that are tiny compared to the size of our problems. I would agree that the bonuses themselves are huge problems that far outweigh their monetary value because they are reflective of an insular, entitlement mentality that has captured the Street and the Treasury Department. Until the culture has been broken then we will continue to see a mess.Anyway, forget all that for a second.An hour ago the Fed announced it was buying another $750 billion in mortgage backed assets and will start purchasing long term treasuries, the first installment at $300 billion. In short, this is the long awaited “monetization of debt” that people have been expecting, or in other words, they are just printing money to simultaneously try to keep interest rates low and inflation expectations high (those are contradictory I’ll get to it in a second) with the hope that asset values will increase. Ben Bernanke gave a famous speech where he said deflation was impossible in a fiat system because they could just do a “helicopter drop” or in other words, print money. The idea was proposed by Milton Friedman as a way to avoid a depression.This is potentially the start of the biggest gamble that the US government has taken with its currency since moving off specie and may have profound consequences for decades.So the idea is that the treasury prints money, the Fed then uses that to buy long term bonds to keep down interest rates and encourage investment, and then the money goes into circulation. Theoretically that money will cause inflation and — coupled with low interest rates — people will stop saving money and start buying stuff, getting out of the deflationary spiral and then we are all happy. There are a few minor problems with this.First of all, it’s a game of chicken. If inflation is going to rise then you don’t want to have bonds, so you’d sell them and cause the yields to rise. The more people that sell, the more the Fed has to buy to keep them down, meaning the more money has to be printed, meaning the more inflation expectations will rise…etc. This can cause “embedded inflation expectations” which means that people will stop paying attention to reality and cause rampant inflation. This is what happened during the 70s, which ironically is what Friedman won the Nobel prize for, although the embedded inflation expectations in the 70s were due to an external resource shock rather than monetary policy per se. So then at some point the Fed has to stop and raise interest rates enormously to stop inflation expectations. If it does it too soon, well we’d have a Depression still (worse this time) and if it does it too late, then our currency would be completely devalued against either other currencies or real goods (if all currencies are devaluing). When is that right time? Well no one has ever successfully used this, so no one knows. I’d argue that there is no right time because they operate on different timescales, so it’s impossible to thread the needle…but their models say differently.Secondly, if there is a lot of inflation, that needs to go out into wage inflation or else everyone without a lot of assets will just become a lot poorer. To say that our society doesn’t have the structure to have wage inflation take hold is putting it mildly. Also, as my post a few months ago mentioned inflation won’t come across things evenly. Even if there is inflation that takes hold, then housing still won’t increase much in value, but basic materials will skyrocket. So we’d have all the problems we have today but make it harder for most people to afford necessities. The banks still won’t lend very much because people are too indebted, but now the rich market makers will have lots of money so bubbles will form in lots of stuff.In short, by trying to avoid a depression, they are punishing savers and rewarding debtors, and doing it in a way that makes the people that messed up have more wealth.As the Wikipedia article on the Helicopter Drop states:Milton Friedman suggested that a monetary authority can escape a liquidity trap by bypassing financial intermediaries [in this case we can’t because they have too much power] to give money directly to consumers or businesses [or large investors, which is what this is]. This is referred to as a money gift or as helicopter money. The term helicopter money is meant to portray the image of a central banker dropping money on people from a helicopter. Political considerations make it difficult for a monetary authority to grant the money gift, because individuals and firms not receiving free money will exert political pressure. The monetary authority must act covertly to give gift money to specific individuals or firms without appearing to give money away.In essence it is a transfer of wealth far greater and more insidious than any tax increase and in the present environment will most likely be borne the most on the poor and middle class. As my friend succinctly put it after I described the theory (before stating my personal opinion): “so they are, in practice, devaluing all industry and commerce which hasn’t failed.”There is a chance that they will start down this path and blink because it’s too big, and we’ll have a very fast Depression as they pull the plug and give up. This is literally the last tool they have and if it fails then there is nothing left. There is also a chance that they will continue to do the policy until inflation gets wildly out of control, threatening the security of the US dollar (especially if China decides to sell off its treasuries) or fiat currency in general (the UK started something similar and most countries will follow). This is why gold shot up a ton today. I think there is a small chance that it’ll work as intended, for the reasons I detailed in my series in the fall (here, here, here).Don’t get me wrong, the steps that they have announced thus far are not large enough to really change things one way or the other. This is merely a $300 billion (well $1 trillion with mortgages) test balloon to try and influence people’s behavior. Of course this is like the 50th thing that they’ve done to manage expectations and those have all failed, and at this point people are being tricked for shorter and shorter periods of time, so the real question is what they will do over the course of the next year when the economy fails to pick up.If you think we’ve seen a wild ride so far, just know that we ain’t seen nothing yet. This is going to make the moves in the bond and currency markets even worse, which will cause extreme volatility and lead to more failures. Even if the policy eventually works, it’s going to shake the system to the breaking point…whether it breaks and falls apart or rights itself at the last instant, I don’t really know; the entire environment is getting too ahistorical to try and predict. I for one am desperately hoping that people across the spectrum will wake up and start demanding policies that will preserve the integrity of the government, even though that means deflation and a depression. We can work through that, but it’s less clear how to work through the other.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

Bush appears on an aircraft carrier declaring victory, now we have Obama appearing on Leno to discuss the economy and feign outrage on the AIG bonuses even though he signed the bill(stimulus bill amendment) permitting them.

REDMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

The bonus issue is just a diversion to keep reporting off the real larceny. AIG has been paid by the government and then paid out over $100 BILLION dollars to investment bankers.The bonus money is just chump change to keep these guys quiet.

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

chart of the day from Mishhttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/ScFUrEixmQI/AAAAAAAAFv8/UdbO0SElNiE/s1600-h/gold-30-min.png

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

I may be wrong, but If other countries try to leave the dollar/treasuries that just puts upward pressure on their own currencies thus hurting their export industries right? So isn’t it more likely that we will just see printing by other central banks? If the printing is coordinated amongst the major central banks, that would prevent the dollar from sliding too much, at least relative to other currencies correct? Or if they take turns printing (and give certain insiders a little nod ahead of time) playing the swings could be a source of income for those insiders correct?I’m just a 25 year old college dropout who has never taken an econ course in my life, so let me know where/if I am wrong

AWBMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

Who wants to go get the congress, i am sick and tired of what they are doing and i just say we should all just show up at the door steps and have them resign. Peoples lives are being threatened and the current Congress needs to go…NOW!!!!

BrettMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

When it comes to the financial establishment, it’s always good to expect the unexpected. Something will happen down the road that will cause the Fed to tighten up the money supply. It will probably coincide with the market reaching its true long term bottom. The Fed will start raising rates. The public will move into cash, and the stock will be left to the exchange members.

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

and here is the link to Mish’s post on deflationhttp://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/03/bernankes-grand-experiment-continues.html

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

The Chinese and the Japanese are just dumb. Obama was assuring them, but they have to be dumb to believe him (if they do). This is collective collapse of reason. If hyperinflation destroys dollar’s hegemony, then Bernanke should be tried for treason. His action train will lead us to a great disaster.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

Democrats have no credibility. They are playing political games, approving all the throwing of money insidiously, and then coming in public to blast the bonuses to get political points, and provide therapy to “main street” so to speak. I have no faith in democrats anymore. Republicans might be short of insights and “stupid” as some call them, but democrats are just plain hypocritical.

Forensic economistMarch 18th, 2009 at 5:00 pm

Top 40 country radioIn case you haven’t tuned in to a country station lately, there are some pissed off people around the country. “It gets me fighting mad”SHUTTING DETROIT DOWNMy daddy taught meIn this county everyone’s the sameYou work hard for your dollarAnd you never pass the blameWhen it don’t go your wayNow I see all these big shotsWhining on my evening newsAbout how their losing billionsAnd it’s up to me and youTo come running to the rescueWell pardon me if I don’t shed a tearCuz they’re selling make believeAnd we don’t buy that hereWell that old mans been workingHard in that plant most all his lifeAnd now his pension plansBeen cut in half andHe can’t afford to dieAnd it’s a crying shameCuz he aint the one to blameWhen I look down and see his callused handsWell let me tell you friendIt gets me fighting madBecause in the real world they’reShutting Detroit downWhile the boss man takes hisBonus pay and jets on outta townDC’s paying out the bankerAt the farmers auction groundAnd while they’re living it up on Wall StreetIn that New York City townHere in the real world they’reShutting Detroit downHere in the real world they’reShutting Detroit down- John Rich

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

If the Chinese could start spending locally rather than lending in worthless paper, and the world reacts to it by dumping the dollar, then the world order might be recreated. The Chinese should lend to India, emerging economies, and tap the potential there. The world is at a crossroads and they are asking the Chinese the question, can you show leadership and vision like America has in the past, and so far the Chinese have been weak, to pass on the mantle back to the US.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

They are happy to lend to the US an apple and get half of it back a decade or so later because it mantains the status quo in China and benefits their production-based economy. The question is, can tey start spending locally rather than lend it to the US to change the order and say “there is no free lunch”. And if they are able to show this leadership, would the world react by dumping the dollar, investing in China, to tap what could potentially be their consumer-driven economy. Can the Chinese take India and emerging Asia along with them? Can they show leadership and vision?

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

Jimmy Buffet has a new one too called “A lot to Drink About”Here’s part of it:”Now the family devaluesand little children count their net worthand the truth wherever it’s hiding,can be found on Google Earth.Citibank’s buying jets with our money.I wanna flog ‘em with a buggy whip.I hope Obama and Joe won’t let the volcano blowand patch the hole in our sinking ship.It’s the price of oil,the war of the spoils.Here’s your bucket for the big bailout?Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan,We’ve got a lot to drink about”

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

Does anyone think that Nouriel wasn’t expecting the drastic $1.15 trillion expansion of the balance FED’s sheet? I’m wondering if he is still standing by his “Dead Cat Bounce” post now with the recent FED action? Doug Kass is calling the March 6th bottom the “Roubini Bottom” and that it was a “generational low” never to be violated. Basically Kass is saying that we are in full blown bull market now and the bear market is over.http://www.thestreet.com/story/10474021/1/kass-rally-through-summer.html

JuniMarch 18th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

Nothing has changed the fundamentals for the consumer that drives the economy, except a little bit of lost 401(k) money has been gained back. Even worse, the consumer now faces having higher costs for necessary goods in the future thanks to monetizing the debt. Wages aren’t really going to move upward. So I don’t see consumer demand picking up (at least not in a sustained way), and therefore, unemployment will continue to drag down the consumer even further. Any growth assumes consumers will be borrowing money to spend (now especially b/c savings will be punished when inflation kicks in), but most aren’t in the position to borrow. And if they do, we’ll just be back here again. It’s possible the rally will last a while, but I believe it’s still a bear market rally. There’s no magic potion to fix our problems, and as long as consumption accounts for the majority of GDP and wages remain stagnant or deflationary, we’ll continue this train wreck. Debt is not the answer. TPTB may be able to squeeze a few more bubbles out of us to keep this train going, but they will burst, as always, and we will eventually crash.

PeteCAMarch 18th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

This is all about debt and credit. Today, US bonds and treasuries became a “game of chicken”. You decide where you want to park your money.PeteCA

subgeniusMarch 18th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

Oh yeah, Kass is right. Fundamentals are driving the rally, all is well with the $, and there is no foreseeable future problem of any magnitude to deal with.Oh yeah, isn’t that paragon of truth and detail J. Cramer part of this esteemed establishment?/sarcasm-off

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

“$1.15 trillion expansion of the balance FED’s sheet” will not be the last expansion. dont bet against FED.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 6:28 pm

Why not? I’ve been betting against the Fed for a couple of years now and it has paid off handsomely!

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

FED brought out Bazooka to wipe out short from time to time. Today, short got seriously violated. dont bet against FED’s determination to do quantitative pumping.

subgeniusMarch 18th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

Further to the above – I am just watching the Obama “townhall meeting” stream.His explanations are weak, and his presentation weaker, than I had been expecting. Is the Obama bubble over already?(note: I am apolitical – at least in the rigged nonsense perpetrated by this great nation)

MorbidMarch 18th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

Denial > ANGERIt’s that 5-step dying process I posted awhile back.The Five Step Program Towards Ultimate Healing

Five discrete stages, a process by which people allegedly deal with grief and tragedy.

1. Denial: – “I feel fine.”; “This can’t be happening, not to me!“2. Anger: – “Why me? It’s not fair!” “How can this happen, I hate this world!“3. Bargaining: – “Just let me live to see my children graduate.”; “I’ll do anything, can’t you stretch it out? A few more years.” I will give my life savings if...”’4. Depression: – “I’m so sad, why bother with anything?”; “I’m going to die . . . What’s the point?“5. Acceptance: – “It’s going to be okay.”; “I can’t fight it, I may as well prepare for it. Goodbye cruel world.”What # are you at?

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 7:01 pm

This was the standard method politicians use: it’s called CYA; the only problem is Geithner is too big of an Ass for it to be adequately covered!

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

Guest says:”Doug Kass is calling the March 6th bottom the “Roubini Bottom”"This is what Doug Kass has to say about CNBC’s Jim Cramer and Roubini back in January”Focus shifts for several media darlings. Though continuing on CNBC, Jim “El Capitan” Cramer announces his own reality show that will air on NBC in the fall. At the time his reality show premieres, he also writes a new book, Stay Mad for Life: How to Prosper from a Buy/Hold Investment Strategy. Dr. Nouriel Roubini continues to talk depression, but the price of his speaking engagements are cut in half.”http://www.seabreezepartners.net/newsArticle.asp?id=403and this is what Mr. Kass wrote in September before the Market began its slow motion crash”Importantly, I have long written this summer that, given the complexity of today’s investment issues, I will let the market tell me its story, and Mr. Market is telling a clear disinflationary tale — Jim “El Capitan” Cramer gets this, too! — based on the classic relative strength and revival of early cycle sectors (homebuilding, finance and retailing).This is what market bottoms look like.”http://www.thestreet.com/p/newsanalysis/investing/10435762.htmlI can see why you didn’t associate your post with a name other than Guest.

MorbidMarch 18th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

Pete’s Level of Impossibility =’s The Humpty Dumpty ThresholdHumpty Dumpty AnimationIn Case You Are Wondering Who This Is – It’s YOU!Dear Professor,Please feel free to use the Humpty Humpty business in any of your economic outlooks – I lay no claim on this verbiage – it belongs to all of mankind.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

FED also did huge blow to China and Japan by debasing dollar. boy, $1.15Trillion just minted and put in circulation. and with more to come. wow.

MorbidMarch 18th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

It’s FOOL’s GOLDWhy? Because when the BLACK SWAN event hits there will be no place to hide.

REDMarch 18th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

Foreigners have a couple of options- convert to their currency- convert to someone else’s currency- convert to gold- buy hard assets / investmentsThe foreigners currency only appreciates if they convert to their own currency

REDMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

Asset deflation currently, the CPI inflation will come when and if the dollar drops against other currencies. All the imported consumer products will cost much, much, more. The question here is will the Chinese de-peg from the US dollar

REDMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

Hmmm,Well, if the dollar is worth less, and the value of assets (equities) hasn’t really changed, then don’t equity values intrinsically increase (in theory). This certainly plays through with Gold equities, doesn’t it hold for all (or most) equities, especially those with foreign earnings.

Wolf in the WildsMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

This is a dark day in financial history. Remember March 18, 2009. It is the beginning of the end of the status of the US$ as the world reserve currency. It may be the day the world takes its first step to World War 3.If I sound gloomy, it is because I am. Once the world has taken this path, there will be almost no way to get off it. Politicians and central bankers who focus on the short term, will doom us all for the medium and long term. The likelihood of a hyperinflationary inflation has just shot up dramatically. Now its time to see what China and Japan and the rest of the world who holds the US$ as reserve do. This is nothing more than default via debasement. We are all about to pay the price for it.Is there anymore hope?

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

Is deflation a threat to the economic health of the United States? Not to leave you in suspense, I believe that the chance of significant deflation in the United States in the foreseeable future is extremely small, for two principal reasons. The first is the resilience and structural stability of the U.S. economy itself. Over the years, the U.S. economy has shown a remarkable ability to absorb shocks of all kinds, to recover, and to continue to grow. Flexible and efficient markets for labor and capital, an entrepreneurial tradition, and a general willingness to tolerate and even embrace technological and economic change all contribute to this resiliency. A particularly important protective factor in the current environment is the strength of our financial system: Despite the adverse shocks of the past year, our banking system remains healthy and well-regulated, and firm and household balance sheets are for the most part in good shape.

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

sorry I forgot to give a citation for the above quotehttp://www.federalreserve.gov/boardDocs/speeches/2002/20021121/default.htm

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

debasing currency spiral will follow. think about it, if you are foreign sovereign holders of usd or usd based asset, today, your usa investment all declined in value. there is only one way to offset that forex loss. you print as much as 1.15Trillion dollar equivalent your currency to offset that forex loss. and multiply that countries around the world. then you have countries around the globe unite in debasing everyone’s currency. that is currency armagedon.

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

and from the above link another excerpt:”The conclusion that deflation is always reversible under a fiat money system follows from basic economic reasoning. A little parable may prove useful: Today an ounce of gold sells for $300, more or less. Now suppose that a modern alchemist solves his subject’s oldest problem by finding a way to produce unlimited amounts of new gold at essentially no cost. Moreover, his invention is widely publicized and scientifically verified, and he announces his intention to begin massive production of gold within days. What would happen to the price of gold? Presumably, the potentially unlimited supply of cheap gold would cause the market price of gold to plummet. Indeed, if the market for gold is to any degree efficient, the price of gold would collapse immediately after the announcement of the invention, before the alchemist had produced and marketed a single ounce of yellow metal.What has this got to do with monetary policy? Like gold, U.S. dollars have value only to the extent that they are strictly limited in supply. But the U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost. By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so, the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to raising the prices in dollars of those goods and services. We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation.Of course, the U.S. government is not going to print money and distribute it willy-nilly …”

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

but what if China and Japan and rest of world also debase their currency by 1.15Trillion dollar equivalent amount. can US$ stay world reserve currency?

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

and this idea reminiscent of Japan from the same link”So what then might the Fed do if its target interest rate, the overnight federal funds rate, fell to zero? … One approach, similar to an action taken in the past couple of years by the Bank of Japan, would be for the Fed to commit to holding the overnight rate at zero for some specified period.”

Wolf in the WildsMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:39 pm

You are assuming everyone wants to have hyperinflation. I think the countries now face a choice. Join the US in debasing their own currency, or take the high road and exit Bretton Woods II. Currency is measured in what other currency it can buy. It is measured by what GOODS it can buy. A debasement will not help the situation. Only way for other countries to avoid the problems will be to dump the US$ as a transactional and reserve currency, and preserve the sanctity of their own currency.Watch the Middle East as they accelerate their regional currency and change their peg to a basket. If that happens, you can be sure oil will be traded in a basket of currencies. That will be the first step. The Chinese will start dumping their USD holdings and start moving into other currencies. The Japanese will be slower but eventually they too will move. The Japanese have nothing else BUT their reserves. It is paramount that they move fast. We are about to see a currency crisis form in the next 3-6mths.Protectionism will rise further and global trade will grind to a screeching halt as trade partners decide how they want to be paid. It will be bad. Very very bad.

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

but the better solution according to the link above is this: (sound familiar)”A more direct method, which I personally prefer, would be for the Fed to begin announcing explicit ceilings for yields on longer-maturity Treasury debt (say, bonds maturing within the next two years). The Fed could enforce these interest-rate ceilings by committing to make unlimited purchases of securities up to two years from maturity at prices consistent with the targeted yields. If this program were successful, not only would yields on medium-term Treasury securities fall, but (because of links operating through expectations of future interest rates) yields on longer-term public and private debt (such as mortgages) would likely fall as well.”

Wolf in the WildsMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

But the Yen was never the world reserve currency. The USD is. And the world transactional currency as well. Loss of faith in the USD to hold its value will destroy whatever vestiges of transactional value it has. Impact on the world as we know it will be immense.

Wolf in the WildsMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:45 pm

See below. You are assuming that they want to have hyperinflation in their own country. Can you see that happening?Bernanke has just endangered the world. And I think the world will bite back.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

the govt seems reluctant to excercise its ownership rights over AIG to prevent the perception of any hint of nationalization. How wise is that?

HayesMarch 18th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

The above is where we are today (March 18, 2009) with a solution from the person who said in 2002:”our banking system remains healthy and well-regulated, and firm and household balance sheets are for the most part in good shape”if you read on in the above link you will see what this person has in store if his solution does not work but please note the caveat buried in his introduction:”By moving decisively and early, the Fed may be able to prevent the economy from slipping into deflation”in other words this is an experiment

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

Well, seeing that the dollar only lost 3% on the $1.15 trillion announcement, the FED could do and additional $4.60 trillion of printing and give it all to the banks in the form of “free money”. At 3% per 1.15 trillion the dollar would still be above its 2008 low. The dollar has gained through deflation/deleveraging. So in essence the FED could expand its balance sheet an additional $5 trillion and the dollar would still be in relatively good shape. The dollar amount of the deleveraging losses is now absorbed into the equity of the USD through dilution. The “The banks should pay with their equity” additude is no longer in vogue in Washington – that is now obvious. The FED is making a statement that the “sins” of the banks will be compensated for with the dilution of the US dollar. The “franchise value” of the banks will not be sacrificed, and the dollar will take the hit. All the crooks keep the cake and eat it too. And all Americans pay for the sins of the crooked gamblers.The big question is will everyone just sit back and watch this unfold or will they do something about it?

Wall StreetMarch 18th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

Are all you guys still long SDS? All this whining…its like you didn’t think this would happen! use tomorrow’s minor sell off to scale out and wait….sure, fundamentally you are all right….we’re F’ed! but those where the fundamentals of a rational market. This isn’t — almost every economy in world faces the same money printing madness. Let this rally run its course — another 10-15% higher…then sell. And no, its not going to be 4 months, 8 months, 2 years…this could take a decade to run its course. Sorry — not everything is like email and cell phones…massive societal change takes time

Octavio RichettaMarch 18th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

It looks like the Fed cat is back, and the short mice will have to go into hiding, at least for a while.If da’ bears don’t grab some terrain in the next few days, the market should get close to wiping out its YTD losses soon, which would mean at least another 100 points on the S&P.BTW, IMHO, Benny did what needed to be done and I highly doubt the Professor will criticize his latest move.Yes, I am ready to get tomatoes thrown at me, but it looks like the ‘lucky stars’ have lined up in a way such that this country has gotten the president and fed chairman it needs to get better. The reality seems to be that the patient was gravely ill but never visited/will visit the intensive care unit.Do not underestimate the training and the brains of the Fed Cahirman. Bet against him at your own peril:-)From the WS Journal#1 rated forecaster for 2008:Hatzius Sees GDP Growth in Second Half, 10% Unemploymenthttp://www.bloomberg.com/avp/avp.htm?N=av&T=Hatzius%20Sees%20GDP%20Growth%20in%20Second%20Half%2C%2010%25%20Unemployment&clipSRC=mms://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/vyh.GUfFx_L4.asf

Farnorth5March 18th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

SUCCESS AT LAST:The FEDERAL RESERVE is now unofficially the “BAD BANK”,without any legislation required .Take a bow all Fed Staff !!Just think any too big to fail company can now phone the Fed and cash help will be on its way .No questions asked.Wait a minute I dont seem to be on the list!!!My memory seems to be slipping .Would someone please tell me again why the Insurance Co/Investment Banks are getting money AGAIN ??? Could this possibly be the greatest scam ever perpetrated on the American People ?

MAMarch 18th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

@ HloweI am….but I hope it’s not due to being stuborn! Seriously. I hope I am truly being objective. I look inside myself, and believe I am being honest… but there’s this little ego thing that’s lurking beneath that wants me to be right for the sake of being “so prophetic”.So I as my egos battle it out, I’d like to believe I would be willing to modify my call if I believed my original call was wrong… but I still believe it was right.My timing was a little early, and gold did tip the 1,000 mark (which I said it would go to 500 before it ran to 1,000) …but I believe I also said this would play out over the next 3 months. (so, 2 months to go.We shall see. I may be wearing egg? Maybe not.Miss AmericaOn a personal note… How are you doing? How have things been going for those you have been helping. How have you been coping with your loss? 3 and a half to 4 years now. Does it get easier? Do you talk about it? I hope you are stronger then I would be.

K in TXMarch 18th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

Day to day I would say 1 by choice as I focus on other things, but maybe I’m just a self-distracting 4. Tending more toward “I feel fine” and “It’s going to be okay”…I’ll leave the “why me/GCW” to those with more dramatic tendencies. I’m a pragmatist at the core. 3 I don’t believe I have visited yet. And as to 5, I’ve been a stockpiler since 2005 and continue to be one.And you?

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

nay, i think countries around the world will follow USA’s lead into debasing currency spiral. gotta keep ponzi game going.

PeteCAMarch 18th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

OR: Good luck. I do wish you the best. We’re headed into a currency crisis, money crisis and debt crisis. If you are able to keep a cool head and make a profit through this – more power to you.PeteCA

PeteCAMarch 18th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

You Missed ItAt the start of this thread, someone was complaining about not investing in this rally over the last couple of weeks. I don’t know if the comments were genuine, or sarcastic. Assuming the complaint was real … here is my response.You missed the trade of the week. OK, it was actually 9 days. If you had bought Citigroup on March 9′th you would have paid $1/share. Today at the close Citi was over $3/share. So you would have tripled your money in just nine calendar days if you’d bought Citi back on March 9′th.Compared to this, any gains on the S&P500 are irrelevant.What are the chances that someone actually anticipated this move (on Citi and BoA) and made a huge profit??? Given the high degree of corruption and lack of safeguards (e.g. public info protection) we’ve got in our markets right now, I bet the chance is close to 100%.PeteCA

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

Better yet, we own 80% of AIG. So bailout will be us paying ourselves, but these bonuses were us paying the employees.We can never get the money back, by “deducting” it from a bailout of a company we already own.Allowing these bonuses was just more of the intentional Keystone Kops act whereby they loot trillions from us.But I see that things are getting beyond the financial sphere and the personal safety of some individuals is coming into question. It’s the new trend and it’s going to grow.

AnonymousMarch 18th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

Indeed. The fact that they would propose this as a way to get the money back means they are still trying to trick us.We should get back at them for this. We need a change in control, a new system run by us not them.

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

Well, there is no sense in getting depressed even if some C,BAC,JPM, and WFC March call options are up 1000% to 5000%. BAC March 6′s up 4000% from March 6th, JPM March 20′s up 3000+ %. Bearish triple etf put options (BGZ,SKF) up 500 – 1000%, Bullish triple etf options (BGU)up 1000% from March 6th. BAC,C,FAS UP 150%,200%,200%nah, no reason at all! Easy to shake off eh, maybe get some hypnotic treatment?

GuestMarch 18th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

It has a real effect. It will reduce the significant of the debts that are choking banks, but more importantly choking real people who are hopelessly in debt.It is a good thing to relieve them of that burden. In the Old Testament it calls for a Jubilee every 50 years.

Wolf in the WildsMarch 18th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

It will take some time. But I think it will happen faster than what most people expect. 3% a day is a huge move. Expect that more will happen when the global investors holding USD decide that enough is enough. It might take a week, it might take a month. But for sure, global investors will be eye-ing the exit door. China clearly will be the first mover. I think they are going to let their short dated notes roll off without throwing it back in to the US. I am not certain about the Japanese but I suspect they must be quaking in their boots. And of course there is the Middle East. Will we see concerted moves before the G20 on 2 April? Unlikely but there will be a lot of tension. All we can do is prepare for ourselves.If I am an American with savings, I would be getting out of my USD now. But that is just me.

MarkMarch 18th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

Pardon the expression, but a broken clock is right at least twice a day…Eventually, if one believes that everything is cyclical, what you state WILL occur. It’s a matter of time. I was about 3 years early in calling this collapse :-( Took a lot of ribbing (now no longer).So, care to place some sort of constraint on your prognostication? Are you thinking a month, 6 months, a year?Mark

jugglingcdosMarch 18th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

off topic…i think i saw the “star” (morbid was discussing about it ) 2 nights in a row, at 8pm it’s on the south horizon about 40 degrees slowly falling westward, p/s: (if im right) Venus is on the west during early eveningstrange…anyway like i said hyperinflation hyperinflation tisk tisk

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 12:03 am

Since we cannot pay the debts we must default.A simple logical statement. It would have been treasonous for the US government to deny its citizens this relief.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:14 am

If China were to stop buying US treasuries, the Fed can always print more money and take their place.They are already buying their own treasuries anyway:Fed to buy long-term U.S. government debthttp://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE52H5YE20090318Nevertheless it is doubtful that China would just suddenly stop buying the treasuries. The reason is the same as why it is doubtful that China would nuke USA. They are fully capable of nuking USA (just as USA is fully capable of nuking China) but doing so would be irresponsible.

London BankerMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:33 am

Did you see my plug for you on Roubini’s blog – citing your evaporflation theory? Go check it out on yesterday’s blog.

London BankerMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:38 am

Reposting here where it belongs:@ MarkI was on the fence a long time thinking about inflation/deflation. What the central banks are attempting is what Rich Hartmann called “evaporflation” on this blog over a year ago. “Evaporflation”, as Rich described it (rather cryptically) involves the toxic assets that have expanded credit during the bubble years being taken into the central banks’ books at fraudulently mis-priced valuations, further expanding the money supply beyond the former gross levels. This should restart inflation, they hope.I came down on the side of deflation, however, when I realised that the central bank antics wouldn’t fool creditors and savers for long. Creditors and savers (the Chinese, Japanese, Russians and Gulf Arabs) will notice the value of all their assets being eroded, and notice the negative return on lending cash or investing in the USA, UK and other bubble states. They will shift out of bubble states, directing investment inward to support their own growth and regional development. When that happens, the debt collapse in the USA and UK will accelerate, so that debt fails at a faster rate than the central banks can expand money supply through evaporflation to the financial sector.We are seeing the proof of that now with outflows of money from the USA reported in the TIC data for January (see Brad Setser’s blog) at the same time the Fed and Bank of England go full throttle for monetary easing. The central banks will lose in a confrontation with creditors. In fact, we will all lose. The result is inevitably deflation.Reply to this comment By London Banker on 2009-03-18 20:48:19

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 3:52 am

Well now, this light is sure great. Geab was wrong about pension funds and that guy Denninger turns out to be a lunatic. Who wants to bet -3 this quarter and then close to zero the second.Even on the most beautiful days we can find things that are wrong.It seems its time to put away our doom hats and put on a smiley face

PeterJBMarch 19th, 2009 at 4:08 am

This star – it wouldn’t be the reflection of the orbiting space station, would it – it’s luminosity can be surprisingly bright at times?Ho hum

jugglingcdosMarch 19th, 2009 at 4:19 am

Yeah Riteee everything is AOK, Handy Dandy,Right as Rain, Bright SunShiny Dayhttp://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/03/scenes_from_the_recession.htmli guess these hundreds/thousand of people out of jobs, no homes are just hallucinatingEverything is AWESOME!!!

jugglingcdosMarch 19th, 2009 at 4:28 am

it flickered!!from my understanding satellite just reflect the suns ray/light, so it would be yellow coloredplanets reflect the suns light like our moon would, so its white colored, not flickeringthis thing emits rays of blue and red, and compared to other stars, it’s really brightand it’s easy to find, just direct yourself towards SSW and Voila it’s there..

jMarch 19th, 2009 at 4:30 am

Peter youre in Australia (southern Hemisphere), am i correct??I’m not sure if you can see it from there

P1AQLMarch 19th, 2009 at 4:36 am

LB wrote:

Creditors and savers (the Chinese, Japanese, Russians and Gulf Arabs) will notice the value of all their assets being eroded, and notice the negative return on lending cash or investing in the USA, UK and other bubble states. They will shift out of bubble states, directing investment inward to support their own growth and regional development.

Support their own growth and development you say? I beg to differ. Investment doesn’t rhyme with these countries.Chinese and invest? The communist political model is unable to match investors and entrepreneurs. No wonder they kept buying treasuries since they couldn’t spawn entrepreneurial operating assets!Japanese and invest? When was the last time you heard from a keiretsu bank?Russians and invest? In Oil? In Oligarchs? No can do!Gulf Arabs and invest? In Real-Estate? In Oil? Uh, no. They’re both busted now.They’ve gotta stay with the dollar since they don’t have alternative ‘shadow’ assets to invest in any more.May the USD be with you.Ben, Print without fear. Take the poison out of the blood and apply the balm of the greenback on the innards.Mission Accomplished. Old jungle saying: You can’t fight the Fed. The 2002 note machine has been activated. Can you hear it go whirr?Best,Print First Ask Questions Later.

ranManMarch 19th, 2009 at 5:40 am

wolf:I don’t think Bernanke did this in a vacuum. Remember the G-20 meeting? I’m very sure everyone there got clued into what the FED was planning so they could digest it and make plans accordingly. just MHO.

PeterJBMarch 19th, 2009 at 5:40 am

Correct – just went outside as it is dusk here in Perth (WA) – can’t see anything anywhere er, yet: maybe its the beer;-)>???Ho hum

The AlarmistMarch 19th, 2009 at 5:46 am

Because you don’t get to hundreds of billions without pi**ing away hundreds of millions.I used to do comp contracts, and they always had an out for events of fraud, misrepresentation and usually had clawbacks for error in calculations. I’m sure one of these applies in the case of the rocket scientists at AIG, and would have been employed by an Administrator if that fine firm had found its way to bankruptcy, where it belonged … then again, in Bankruptcy AIG wouldn’t be useful as a conduit to pump money to the FOPs, now the FOGs. So we really must be getting our moneys’ worth for the $165m when seen from the perspective of Mr. G.

AllanGreenMarch 19th, 2009 at 6:28 am

Congratulations Nouriel. Peterson institute is a step into the big-time.I hope you’ll continue to produce cutting-edge contrarian, and smart analysis we’ve come to rely on. I would only ask you consider drawing Stephen Roach into the discussion.

EleutheroMarch 19th, 2009 at 6:50 am

Mr. Roubini believes in Keynesianism. I don’tget it. Is there one iota of evidence that anyof these monies are going to raise declining realwages, increase home affordability for brokenconsumers, or create new jobs. Please. Whatindustries haven’t offshored most of their goodjobs?

HayesMarch 19th, 2009 at 7:03 am

from Yves and excellent article on what is going on behind the scenesOn the Fed’s “Shock and Awe”http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/03/on-feds-shock-and-awe.html

JamesMarch 19th, 2009 at 7:14 am

It is Venus. Venus gets surprisingly high in the sky and can be seen until about 10PM. It is yellow and in the SSW portion of the sky.Anyone see comet Lulin in Leo a few weeks ago? I saw it. It was pretty cool.

MorbidMarch 19th, 2009 at 7:19 am

Juggling,I use computer software called STELLARIUM which can be downloaded off the web for free. Lining things up with your time you are correct – Venus is almost below the horizon in the West at 8 PM. Are you in the Western part of the USA?In any event I see that in CA at 8 PM using STELLARIUM the constellation Orion is almost due South in the night sky – favoring the SW area I would say. Was this flickering star in Orion? In any event I will take a look tonight if it is not overcast.I don’t see any astronomy clubs noting this though – one would think they would be on it if it was something like a supernova about to blow.

thimmappa nayakaMarch 19th, 2009 at 7:20 am

Kudos to the Fed and Ben Bernanke. As I have said before, they will use the threat of inflation and if that does not work inflation itself to pry dollars from hands of dollar hoarders and put them into circulation and creating wealth again.

Armand de MiloMarch 19th, 2009 at 7:33 am

@ El-le…Stan Rogers – Barrett’s PrivateersOh, the year was 1778, HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!A letter of marque came from the king,To the scummiest vessel I’d ever seen,God damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.Oh, Elcid Barrett cried the town, HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!For twenty brave men all fishermen whowould make for him the Antelope’s crewGod damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.The Antelope sloop was a sickening sight,HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!She’d a list to the port and and her sails in ragsAnd the cook in scuppers with the staggers and the jagsGod damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.On the King’s birthday we put to sea, HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!We were 91 days to Montego BayPumping like madmen all the wayGod damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.On the 96th day we sailed again, HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!When a bloody great Yankee hove in sightWith our cracked four pounders we made to fightGod damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.The Yankee lay low down with gold, HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!She was broad and fat and loose in the staysBut to catch her took the Antelope two whole daysGod damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.Then at length we stood two cables away, HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!Our cracked four pounders made an awful dinBut with one fat ball the Yank stove us inGod damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.The Antelope shook and pitched on her side, HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!Barrett was smashed like a bowl of eggsAnd the Maintruck carried off both me legsGod damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.So here I lay in my 23rd year, HOW I WISH I WAS IN SHERBROOKE NOW!It’s been 6 years since we sailed awayAnd I just made Halifax yesterdayGod damn them all!I was told we’d cruise the seas for American goldWe’d fire no guns-shed no tearsNow I’m a broken man on a Halifax pierThe last of Barrett’s Privateers.

Miss ItalyMarch 19th, 2009 at 7:50 am

Octavio,what do you think of this article? Is Bernanke going to pose in front of a “Mission Accomplished” banner soon?

MorbidMarch 19th, 2009 at 7:51 am

The cat is out of the bag and climbing upwards in a bounce of all bounces.The FED has begun to seriously Bet-The-Country. Will they succeed in reflating the economy? Will the global economy follow?Marc Faber said a few weeks ago that the USA was practicing Zimbabwe economics and to expect 200%/year inflation in the USA. No time line given.I can’t get my head around the suffering that is about to be unleashed. All because of a few rotten apples in the barrel.US Inflation Could Hit 200%…

MorbidMarch 19th, 2009 at 8:23 am

Competitive Devaluations Begin

aggressive quantitative easing is precisely the medicine needed by a British economy on life support.Now the Swiss National Bank has followed suit, announcing a shift to quantitative easing in response to mounting fears of deflation. It implemented that policy last week by buying foreign exchange and corporate bonds, rather than government debt as in Britain, but the net result was the same. It was a sharp fall in the exchange rate, by 3%, on the first day of the new regime.

Competitive Devalution to the Rescue

MAMarch 19th, 2009 at 8:31 am

@ Mark,Are you refering to evaporflation or my gold call?My gold call has 2 months left to play out. At the moment I look extremely wrong. …but my being right/wrong is so impossible to call right now because of the current state of evaporflation that WE ARE IN. (and we did experiance condenflation for about 4 years)I think the book needs to be re-written to basic economics. I don’t think such a large artificial force was ever accounted for. (large to the point of difference making)Miss America

plonka10March 19th, 2009 at 8:40 am

@ MorbidFrom the outside looking in, it looks more like the apples are being kept in a rotten barrel. Sorry.

HayesMarch 19th, 2009 at 8:42 am

great comment on CNBC just now – an analyst stated that the Fed is printing 1 Trillion Zimbabwe dollars – he then holds up a 100 billion Zimbabwe note, which can buy a loaf of breadhe concludes 40% of potential money that could go to equities is sitting in Money Market earning zero – that money is now at risk due to inflation e.g. it will be forced into equities.

MAMarch 19th, 2009 at 8:43 am

no… I hadn’t seen this.Thanks for the citation.Hey LB, how far ahead of the curve were we!!! “Debt Servicing Corp / Structured Products Registry”…ah those fools!!!!I wonder if we’ve reached critical mass yet?I love that I hear the big guns talking about putting together something we laid out at the beginning of 2008!!!Keep up the awesome work.Drop me an email if you can, as I’d love an update or two on your new life as a “UniverseBanker”.Rich H

HayesMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:07 am

Goldman Sachs (Jan Hatzius) sees (Mild) recession this yearJan. 9, 2008WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — … Goldman Sachs chief economist Jan Hatzius said he now expects a mild recession lasting two or three quarters this year, with a cumulative drop in gross domestic product of about 0.5%. “The latest data suggest that recession has now arrived, or will very shortly,” Hatzius wrote in a note to clients Wednesday. The Goldman economist expects the jobless rate to rise from 5% to 6.25% by the end of the year. The Federal Reserve is likely to cut its overnight lending rate target from 4.25% to 2.5%, Hatzius said. He expects consumer spending to decline for the first time since 1991http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/goldman-sachs-sees-recession-year/story.aspx?guid={958F9640-9AD3-44A1-AA2B-E0097C111D3F}

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:15 am

read my lip, Fed is not done with $1.2Trillion Zimbabwe dollars. He will print and print until money sitting on sideline move into equity. money sitting sideline just waiting for its value to go done with Ben’s massive printing.

piperMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:16 am

Ah yes – Friday night at the LBR with Miller’s Jug or Miginty playing Barrett’s Privateers and everyone singing along.Good times.

Octavio RichettaMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:17 am

Good article. What I get from it is that the FED purchase of 300 billion is kinda peanuts amount. Benny is gonna have to buy more:-) There are of course, inflationary implications, which is what unfortunately the US needs to get out of this mess. Datz one of the reasons I hedge my bets by moving some money from cash/fixed income into equities/commodities.But also note that according to the some of the brightest economists: Shilling, the Professor, Hatzious (sp?), Kasriel, deflation/no-inflation is watz on the cards.

PeteCAMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:18 am

After this move by Bernanke, I wonder if the G20 is even going to exist much longer. These central bank meetings could dissolve into fighting and acrimony.It’s going to be interesting to see how the Chinese react to this. It’s not just an issue of them stopping purchases of US treasuries at this stage. The Chinese will need to move in a new direction now. They can no longer afford to sit back and “assess” how other countries might react to this crisis. They have to choose their own response.PeteCA

Octavio RichettaMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:18 am

My response above to Miss Italy on Yves latest:Good article. What I get from it is that the FED purchase of 300 billion is kinda peanuts amount. Benny is gonna have to buy more:-) There are of course, inflationary implications, which is what unfortunately the US needs to get out of this mess. Datz one of the reasons I hedge my bets by moving some money from cash/fixed income into equities/commodities.But also note that according to the some of the brightest economists: Shilling, the Professor, Hatzious (sp?), Kasriel, deflation/no-inflation is watz on the cards.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:21 am

$usd going to hit $71 and lower? look at UUP, RSI collapsing. hitting 200 DMA pretty soon. will test $23.91. double top if that support fail -> then going to $20.

Octavio RichettaMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:22 am

Great point. Diz is precisely the reason I moved into [now close] to 40% risk. But will cut some of the exposure as long as diz bull runs out of time (not in the cards just yet)

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:23 am

people should have got out of $usd at $89.62. guess wipe out for them (foreigner that pile into $usd taking huge loss now).

Octavio RichettaMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:27 am

For some reason my “safe” high dividend stocks MO, PFE, PG, are down while speculative/technology MSFT, TIE issues are up. I don’t have the slightest idea how to interpret this.Short covering? the “safe” stuff is perceived as less undervalued. PG PFE should rally on a weak USD.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:28 am

i think you are right. G-20 meeting probably got the glimpse of what FED gonna do and will do a coordinated move together. well, coordinated debasing currency spiral. yep, next stop -> currency crisis armagedon.

HayesMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:30 am

Octavio – I posted a link a few weeks ago featuring Chanos on for profit educcation (shorting) did you see it? if not I will repost

AnonymousMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:34 am

This is an opportune time to use the dollar for purchasing. After the economy is rolling again interest rates will see higher averages I am sure and yes, buying shares of good solid companies at lower than average valuations is also very good right now.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:37 am

Chinese think they are so smart, swapping long date Treasury and Agency debt into short term treasury. Then come will $1.2Trillion dollar printing that wack them with forex loss. at least long date treasury and agency will pare some loss, because they go up in value. but short term treasury holders will take heaviest absolute forex loss pounding. but eventually forex loss will come to long date treasury and agency holders (and the fact, these securities are toxic will compound the loss)

Octavio RichettaMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:45 am

Thanks I just saw it again! Yes, I will short this puppy again when the head winds die out. But don’t forget Chanos was shorting AOL when the internet bubble was taking off!

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:56 am

Ok based on the Fed deciding to monetize the debt how should one invest if they are vested in the Gov’t TSP account which tracks index funds. I’ve been hunkered down in the G fund (Gov’t securities) for over a year and was able to hold on to most of my chips during the market downturn. What’s the strategy now..start moving into stock funds like Bernanke is “banking” on people doing since bonds will get hit?

FEDupMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:56 am

this could be their thinking”swapping long term Ts for short term and while they may get clobbered, they will also be able to lower their long term exposure in case all hell breaks lose. It also appears the US is committed to running the printing presses 24/7 to save it’s precious TBTF corporations, thus buying as much time as they can until the economy begins to recover; then they will simply raise interest rates as high as necessary to fight inflation: all this without giving a damn about the American worker’s job, wages and purchasing power. It all boils down to “the wants of the few override the needs of the many”! Remember, third world countries work great for those on top!

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 10:16 am

“lower their long term exposure in case all hell breaks lose” this statement perfectly describes how toxic long dated treasury is now. anyway, China and Japan have too much exposure to usd, usd denominated asset. loss on their strategic reserve is unvoidable. their reserve managers should give up their bonus, commit suicide, and apologize to their people for exposing the reserve to single currency and asset denominated in that currency loss of this magnitude. soon, news will come out.

PeteCAMarch 19th, 2009 at 10:35 am

A while back on this blog someone asked if “inflation” would be affecting asset prices. Well, starting today you can see the market adjusting now to the very real threat of high inflation levels in the future. That doesn’t mean we will have double-digit inflation today or this week. But very definitely you can look at market responses and see the shift towards inflation protection – as the market begins to look forward.Meanwhile, I think that average Americans must be getting frustrated, angry and depressed by what is happening to THEIR money. It seems that every taxpayer dollar that we give to Congress is just getting bundled up on trucks, sent over to Helicopter Ben, and handed straight to the Wall Street banks. Americans are going to start wondering very seriously – what is the point of contributing tax dollars if this keeps up? There was a time when taxes were supposed to be used for the collective good of our country as a whole. It’s very difficult to see our hard-earned money being abused in this way. Congress needs to think about this quite seriously.PeteCA

Miss ItalyMarch 19th, 2009 at 10:48 am

Can you comment on the behavior of the stock market during the 70′s? That was an external shock, this one is Fed driven. What if the central banks start fighting each other? Would stocks be such a nice asset to hold, while inflation will be eating the middle class alive?

thinmanMarch 19th, 2009 at 11:01 am

I’m not gonna lie – these new developments have me in a daze. I don’t feel like I have any point of reference, and the schism that’s opened up between those who are calling this the beginning of the end of the recession versus those who are calling it the beginning of the end of the U.S. is troubling, to say the least.Here, though, is something I can understand:http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090319/economy.htmlNew jobless claims drop more than expected to 646,000; continuing claims set new recordThat’s real human suffering right there. While the folks in Washington experiment with the future of our nation, people are hurting, and they need help. It’s not going to come from Washington. We need to mobilize on a local level. Find out who needs your help, and serve them.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 11:05 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE52H2CY20090318U.N. panel says world should ditch dollar”A U.N. panel will next week recommend that the world ditch the dollar as its reserve currency in favor of a shared basket of currencies, a member of the panel said on Wednesday, adding to pressure on the dollar.”OOPS! Interesting timing. The pressure on the dollar is going to be tremendous. We’ll see how it holds up, I suppose.

FEDupMarch 19th, 2009 at 11:16 am

“their reserve managers should give up their bonus, commit suicide and apologize to their people for exposing the reserve to single currency”-An outrageous statement, but I have to agree with you! I also find it interesting that even if the dollar loses half its value, how much does it really hurt the billionaires and the banks who have already received billions compared to the average American whose $30-100k per year salary would essentially be cut in half in terms of purchasing power: I guess this is the outrageous risk our wise leaders are willing to take. All I have left to say is :”I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of Zimbabewe and to the monopoly for which it stands, one nation under the elite, indivisible, with economic slavery and injustice for all!”

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 11:19 am

It’s even worse because all the money the government is spending is going into the hands of the top 1%, there is a shortage of dollars on Main street. The FED is all a trickle down economics scam because the banks will not loosen their lending standards. This is all leading to massive consolidation of power and wealth. There won’t be inflation of wages just inflation of rich peoples bank accounts, then the dollar will collapse because the governments can’t pay their pension and food stamp recipients and foreigners will gobble everything up. All and all it ‘s a sickening form of wealth redistribution, they’ve done almost nothing so far to save the actual economy or create jobs. The little guy will be killed by rampant inflation and low wages or no jobs period, that is until we’re all on the same economic level as the Chinese.

subgeniusMarch 19th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

I just watched Farber advise everybody to get a farm and a shotgun on an ABC Australia stream.It’s here if anybody is interested…

and...March 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

A Program of Financial ConcentrationWas the Bailout Itself a Scam?By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTSProfessor Michael Hudson (CounterPunch, March 18) is correct that the orchestrated outrage over the $165 million AIG bonuses is a diversion from the thousand times greater theft from taxpayers of the approximately $200 billion “bailout” of AIG. Nevertheless, it is a diversion that serves an important purpose. It has taught an inattentive American public that the elites run the government in their own private interests.Americans are angry that AIG executives are paying themselves millions of dollars in bonuses after having cost the taxpayers an exorbitant sum. Senator Charles Grassley put a proper face on the anger when he suggested that the AIG executives “follow the Japanese example and resign or go commit suicide.”Yet, Obama’s White House economist, Larry Summers, on whose watch as Treasury Secretary in the Clinton administration financial deregulation got out of control, invoked the “sanctity of contracts” in defense of the AIG bonuses.But the Obama administration does not regard other contracts as sacred. Specifically: labor unions had to agree to give-backs in order for the auto companies to obtain federal help; CNN reports that “Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki confirmed Tuesday [March 10] that the Obama administration is considering a controversial plan to make veterans pay for treatment of service-related injuries with private insurance”; the Washington Post reports that the Obama team has set its sights on downsizing Social Security and Medicare.According to the Post, Obama said that “it is impossible to separate the country’s financial ills from the long-term need to rein in health-care costs, stabilize Social Security and prevent the Medicare program from bankrupting the government.”After Washington’s trillion dollar bank bailouts and trillion dollar gratuitous wars for the sake of the military industry’s profits and Israeli territorial expansion, there is no money for Social Security and Medicare.The US government breaks its contracts with US citizens on a daily basis, but AIG’s bonus contracts are sacrosanct. The Social Security contract was broken when the government decided to tax 85% of the benefits. It was broken again when the Clinton administration rigged the inflation measure in order to beat retirees out of their cost-of-living adjustments. To have any real Medicare coverage, a person has to give up part of his Social Security check to pay Medicare Part B premium and then take out a private supplemental policy. The true cost of Medicare to beneficiaries is about $6,000 annually in premiums, plus deductibles and the Medicare tax if the person is still earning.Treasury Secretary Geithner, the fox in charge of the hen house, has resolved the problem for us. He is going to withhold $165 million (the amount of the AIG bonuses) from the next taxpayer payment to AIG of $30,000 million. If someone handed you $30,000 dollars, would you mind if they held back $165?PR flaks have rechristened the bonus payments “retention payments” necessary if AIG is to retain crucial employees. This lie was shot down by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, who informed the House Committee on Financial Services that the payments went to members of AIG’s Financial Products subsidiary, “the unit of AIG that was principally responsible for the firm’s meltdown.” As for retention, Cuomo pointed out that ”numerous individuals who received large ‘retention’ bonuses are no longer at the firm” .Eliot Spitzer, the former New York Governor who was set-up in a sex scandal to prevent him investigating Wall Street’s financial gangsterism, pointed out on March 17 that the real scandal is the billions of taxpayer dollars paid to the counter-parties of AIG’s financial deals. These payments, Spitzer writes, are “a way to hide an enormous second round of cash to the same group that had received TARP money already.”Goldman Sachs, for example, had already received a taxpayer cash infusion of $25 billion and was sitting on more than $100 billion in cash when the Wall Street firm received another $13 billion via the AIG bailout.Moreover, in my opinion, most of the billions of dollars in AIG counter-party payments were unnecessary. They represent gravy paid to firms that had made risk-free bets, the non-payment of which constituted no threat to financial solvency.Spitzer identifies a conflict of interest that could possibly be criminal self-dealing. According to reports, the AIG bailout decision involved Bush Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, formerly of Goldman Sachs, Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, and Timothy Geithner, former New York Federal Reserve president and currently Secretary of the Treasury. No doubt the incestuous relationships are the reason the original bailout deal had no oversight or transparency.The Bush/Obama bailouts require serious investigation. Were these bailouts necessary, or were they a scam, like “weapons of mass destruction,” used to advance a private agenda behind a wall of fear? Recently I heard Harvard Law professor Elizabeth Warren, a member of a congressional bailout oversight panel, say on NPR that the US has far too many banks. Out of the financial crisis, she said, should come consolidation with the financial sector consisting of a few mega-banks. Was the whole point of the bailout to supply taxpayer money for a program of financial concentration?

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

Please remember, the Fed is absolutely backed in a corner here. Real rates in the 10-year part of the curve have exploded. They have no choice but to try and reduce real rates through QE or any other possible means. The US 10′s are going to 2% or less fairly quickly. Just look at a chart of the 10-year Gilts if you want to see the effects of QE…..However, most people missing the boat here. A flatter yield curve is not going to entice people to spend more like the Fed wants. Just the opposite, people will have to save even more to repair their badly damaged balance sheets. This huge collpase in bond yields is going to have a huge effect on the potential insolvency of the pension and insurance sector. How do they meet future obligations??? Simply put, they don’t. This will be the next bailout.

kilgoresMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

The trouble with the Fed’s action, it seems to me, is that it’s just another liquidity injection that may mitigate against the depth of the downturn, but won’t solve the essential problem of insolvency of banks and other financial institutions, which is why they still aren’t lending.SWK

PeteCAMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

Good comments.We’e already one bailout past financial oblivion … at least for the US economy. This doesn’t mean we won’t see a rally somewhere in the global stock markets (at some time soon).I do think we’re reached a real point of policy division for the world’s central banks. At this stage the Chinese Bank must go its own way. Same goes for the Bank of Japan (BOJ). And I would strongly suspect that Trichet and the ECB will do the same thing. The chance of global coordinated action by these banks has been effectively reduced to zero. So this marks the start of a real currency struggle, or currency wars.PeteCA

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

Kill every man women and child alive before giving debt reduction, there will be no debt reduction only mass poverty and enslavement. We do it in plain day light yet you yelp like little helpless puppies so shocked in disbelief with a glazed look in your eye you’re paralyzed. Yes you are all niggers!

PeteCAMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

So where is real CHANGE under Obama?!! Everybody knew that the Camelot atmosphere was going to wear thin … but this quickly??? I’m trying to give the man a chance. Just because someone is elected President doesn’t mean they’ve got all the answers. It takes time. But where’s the heart of the man? ‘Cause it’s sure not coming across in the economic policies right now.PeteCA

kilgoresMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

Please try picking up a dictionary and finding less offensive language to make your point.SWK

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

Yes there will be a currency war. This movement over the last few days in the dollar is nothing but a short term correction. More debt is going to be paid off or written off by the priavate sector than will be printed by the Fed or US Gov. It is total debt we need to be focusing on not jsut government debt. We could possibly see $20 Tln worth of US debt paid off or written off in next coupel years. No way can the Fed print this much money. Dollar will get much stronger before its ultimate demise.

kilgoresMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

Jobs in construction and other industries that must be performed by warm bodies here in the U.S. must be the focus of any Keynesian stimulus. This is why monies earmarked for infrastructure projects are appropriate. Unfortunately, only a fairly small part of the overall stimulus package is for such projects.SWK

PeteCAMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

If the Western banking system is broken and insolvent, can the dollar wind up stronger vs. the yuan (renminbi)? That’s a key question. Seems to me like the answer must be No. If the derivatives bubble collapses (Fed ultimately loses complete control over interest rates), won’t the winners be the people with real savings – who are least affected by financial leverage?PeteCA

wethepeopleMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Geithner recently alleged China was manipulating its currency. I wonder if he sees the hypocracy of that allegation versus the relality of our Fed/Treasury actions? Who has the advantage as debtor or creditor when the creditor holds the debt denominated in the debtors currency? Who really calls the shots?

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

You should watch “The Obama Deception” on yahoo videos. Once again the president is the puppet for the powers that be.

MorbidMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

When I first posted this weeks ago I was depressed or #4. These days I feel much better so it seems I have touched into #5. I guess I will oscillate between those two #’s for a while. Getting to #5 though seems more akin to what happens when someone decides to commit suicide. In that state of mind all one’s problems go away as problem is solved by that decision. Not that I am suicidal but certainly circumstances will become very bad.Do you have a spare room?

MorbidMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

The market is becoming ever more dysfunctional – how can one possible anticipate what will happen next? The ground rules keep changing as Meredith Whitney recently commented on Charlie Rose.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

If the money being printed went directly to individuals, who could then use it to pay of their debts to the banks it would help people. Giving the money straight to the banks without reducing the debt of individuals will only further the gap between rich and poor, and will inevitability find its way back into non-productive, speculative paper assets. Seeing these assets begin to increase in value will once again encourage those individuals who haven’t lost everything to once again invest income from actual productive work into these investments, to only be fleeced by the well connected insiders once again when that bubble inevitably pops. Wash, rinse, repeat.

thinmanMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

of course he sees it, wethepeople, but this is the name of the game in politics: divert attention from your corrupt behavior by pointing out the corrupt behavior of your opponents.As for your second question, I think I would compare it to the “nuclear problem” we have in today’s world. If either side gets an itchy trigger finger, the whole system blows up. If you were to look up the word “dilemma” in the dictionary, you’d see a picture of the creditor/debtor situation you refer to.No one blink, cause it could all go up in smoke at a moment’s notice.

MorbidMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

Given the extent of uncertainty that now begins to unfold – I must admit that I am becoming a believer in the unfathomable New World Order that the Silver Surfer mentioned in the movie featuring the Fantastic Four,All That You Know Has Come To An EndFasten your seat belts folks.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

When someone breaks into your house threatening your family and steals all your belongings do you behave in a civil manner? I’m tired of all this civility it’s time to get very offensive if you don’t get that then you are exactly as I described.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

LOL I m thinking the same the black Swann could be the end of dollar’s hegemony. A period of irrational exhuberance is immedieately followed by a period of irrational goverment action. Which one trumps the other is yet to be seen.

SoftwarengineerMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

STOCKS GOING UP [NOT TODAY THOUGH], TIME FOR MORE HOME BUILDING NOW?I see the federal government put a trillion dollars into bad overpopulation debt Freddie/Fannie and propped gov’t bonds [by printing $300B out of thin air, because no one wants to buy our debt]. The stock market reacted [just like it did when the $767B bailout was announced last Fall], by spiking up some.Granny bar the door on inflation; the dollar value sank 2.5% today….pitty the stupid savers with their 1% money markets.Did any of the trillion go to like developing long-term jobs for America [like industrial base jobs that provide a domestic tax base]? Nope.It all went down the overpopulation toilet. Kiss it good-bye.Does the stock market increase mean anything? Nope, its just an adjustment to inflation as the dollar shrinks in value to pay for the bad overpopulation loans.Will companies be hiring again? LOL

kilgoresMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

You come across as a hopelessly ignorant cretan. We are all guests on this blog, and should maintain some semblance of respect and courtesy. Gutter language and hateful ideas have no place here. Nobody here is “breaking into your house” or “threatening your family” or “stealing all your belongings.” Yet you are being most uncivil, if not utterly reprehensible. Lashing out at me isn’t going to make your life any better.SWK

subgeniusMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

The problem with the world economy, ‘free market capitalism’ (Hah!), the so-called ‘bail outs’ (Hah!), AIG bonuses, Wall Street chicanery and a host of other financial debacles is so utterly intrinsic to our human nature that a massive extinction event is probably the only thing that will cure it.(That light we see in the tunnel is not on oncoming train, it is Darwinian enlightenment.)The tragically false belief is that there is anything, in this mercilessly physical universe, even remotely akin to “profit” (used in the sense of gaining more from an investment than was put into it by all involved parties in the first place.) It’s a concept comparable to a ‘perpetual motion machine’, and if you think such a device is possible then I would would like to sell you shares in a company that says they hold the patent.Certainly there is successful theft (which can be made to look like profit, especially if you own a few newspapers and TV studios.)Just as certainly there can be delusion based on promises of ‘profit’ (just ask Mr. Ponzi.)There can even be hope of profit, as attested by widespread faith in the magical “Unseen Hand” of the marketplace.But, alas, there is no such thing as financial profit.I refer all engineers [and arm chair financiers] to the physical law known as Conservation of Energy, and its firstborn son, the First Law of Thermodynamics.To know that those principles are true in the realm of physics (and petroleum extraction) and nevertheless hold simultaneously to the belief that they do not apply to money… well, it’s just sad.Think of commerce as a cup, and all human activity as a quantity placed in the cup for later use. One can get from that cup exactly as much as was put into it, minus a some evaporation, a little spoilage and a few minor spills “Twixt cup and lip.”That’s it, and that’s all.The rest is flim flam designed to separate victims from what they have labored to put into their own cups. But a piece of advice to novice Capitalists: don’t call it flim flam and theft. That just alerts the marks and makes ‘em cautious. Call it Economics and Profit.(Hat-tip to D.Benton_Smith @ TOD, from whom I stole this…)

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

Regarding your questions, I will try to lacate you e-mail so as not to distract from the blog. Otherwise will post here after new thread.Hope you don’t mind, but thought you post Written by Miss America on 2008-08-08 16:26:31 was worth reviewing, in part here.By MA…but what if the debt today is already too big???Simple!You eliminate it. Poof!You shall see. The FASB has already started working this magic. By allowing corporations to write down their debts on level 3 assets, you are seeing the back door to this “disappearing man in the box” routine. (The FASB has allowed this as the counterbalance to writing down their assets on level 3 assets. BUT IT’S NOT!!! …and that’s the beauty.) In much the same way, as these corporations take back auction rate bonds back onto their books, they will also mark up, their write down of overall debt.Eventually, in round robin fashion, you will see the off balance sheet debt being paired off against other counterparty debt to eliminate overall debt. Debt will evaporate. It has already started. It is the only answer for a debt that can’t be paid. Sorta like Chapter 11, it’s a restructuring that’s going on.This, along with many other smaller factors are where I come to my Evapor-flation call!(years from now, you can say you heard it here first)endhlowe

MorbidMarch 19th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

Ahhhh Darwinian Evolution or is it Devolution?

That light we see in the tunnel is not from an oncoming train, it is Darwinian enlightenment.

Yes, fellow travelers, familiarize yourself with the following case histories of those who elected to purify the gene pool.Darwin AwardsThe next person to win the Nobel Price in economics I personally will nominate for this award – in the name of all mankind.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

wrongdoing is a consequence of ignorance, that those who did wrong knew better.The Socratic method is a negative method of hypothesis elimination, in that better hypotheses are found by steadily identifying and eliminating those which lead to contradictions. It was designed to force one to examine his own beliefs and the validity of such beliefs.unwinding goldilocks will take time.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

Well hop on the commodity bubble folks….and prepare for the eventual treasury bubble burst that will bring down the entire fiat edifice.Banana Republic or bust….>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Commodities surge after Fed bond planBy Javier Blas in LondonPublished: March 19 2009 19:14 | Last updated: March 19 2009 19:14Commodities prices surged on Thursday as investors sought protection against the risk of higher inflation by buying everything from oil and gold tocopper and sugar.Plans by the Federal Reserve to buy $300bn of US government debt triggered the stampede into commodities markets, which had suffered sharp price falls on worries that the world was heading for a depression. For the first time in almost a year, traders looked to oil and other raw materials as a hedge against an unexpected jump in prices.The benchmark S&P GSCI index, a basket of raw materials, rose 6 per cent as oil prices soared to $51 a barrel, up 7 per cent on the day, to theirhighest level since December. Copper reached a four-month high.The switch into commodities was triggered by concern that the US central bank might find it difficult to manage down the country’s money supply whenits economy turned. That could lead to sharply rising prices for many goods and services.Hussein Allidina, head of commodities research at Morgan Stanley in New York, said: “Investors are buying commodities as protection againstinflation and as a hedge against a weaker US dollar.”Nick Kalivas, an analyst at MF Global in New York, said that the aggressive move by the Fed was “stoking inflation expectations” and that there was abelief that a lot of money could flow into commodities.The price rises gained extra momentum from a weakening dollar. The US currency extended its fall against the euro to 4.5 per cent over the past two days, hitting a low of $1.37 per euro.Gold rose to $960 a troy ounce, up 8 per cent since the Fed’s announcement on Wednesday.Michael Lewis, commodity strategist at Deutsche Bank, said that commodities’markets had started to move away from the depression scenario that they werepricing in a few weeks ago. “The hope is that as radical central bank action spreads around the world, demand destruction fears will start to diminish,”he said.The International Monetary Fund forecast the world economy would contract 0.5-1 per cent this year, the first global fall in output in 60 years.”Commodity prices are unlikely to recover while global activity is slowing,” it said in a report ahead of the G20 summit of developed and developing nations next month in London.US shares slipped as investors questioned how effective the Fed’s move would be in averting a prolonged recession. In New York, the benchmark S&P 500index was 1.2 per cent lower by mid-afternoon.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

who are their risk compliance managers. They might be the same wall street people in one form or another in the form of advisors etc?

soo?March 19th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

The Real AIG ScandalIt’s not the bonuses. It’s that AIG’s counterparties are gettingpaid back in full.By Eliot SpitzerPosted Tuesday, March 17, 2009, at 10:41 AMEverybody is rushing to condemn AIG’s bonuses, but this simplescandal is obscuring the real disgrace at the insurance giant: Whyare AIG’s counterparties getting paid back in full, to the tune oftens of billions of taxpayer dollars?For the answer to this question, we need to go back to the veryfirst decision to bail out AIG, made, we are told, by then-TreasurySecretary Henry Paulson, then-New York Fed official TimothyGeithner, Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, and Fed Chairman BenBernanke last fall. Post-Lehman’s collapse, they feared a systemicfailure could be triggered by AIG’s inability to pay thecounterparties to all the sophisticated instruments AIG had sold.And who were AIG’s trading partners? No shock here: Goldman, Bankof America, Merrill Lynch, UBS, JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley,Deutsche Bank, Barclays, and on it goes. So now we know for surewhat we already surmised: The AIG bailout has been a way to hide anenormous second round of cash to the same group that had receivedTARP money already.It all appears, once again, to be the same insiders protectingthemselves against sharing the pain and risk of their own badadventure. The payments to AIG’s counterparties are justified withan appeal to the sanctity of contract. If AIG’s contracts turnedout to be shaky, the theory goes, then the whole edifice of thefinancial system would collapse.But wait a moment, aren’t we in the midst of reopening contractsall over the place to share the burden of this crisis? From raisingtaxes—incometaxes to sales taxes—to properly reopening labor contracts, we areall being asked to pitch in and carry our share of the burden.Workers around the country are being asked to take pay cuts andaccept shorter work weeks so that colleagues won’t be laid off. Whycan’t Wall Street royalty shoulder some of the burden? Why didGoldman have to get back 100 cents on the dollar? Didn’t we alreadygive Goldman a $25 billion capital infusion, and aren’t theysitting on more than $100 billion in cash? Haven’t we been toldrecently that they are beginning to come back to fiscal stability?If that is so, couldn’t they have accepted a discount, and couldn’tthey have agreed to certain conditions before the AIG dollars—thatis, our dollars—flowed?The appearance that this was all an inside job is overwhelming. AIGwas nothing more than a conduit for huge capital flows to the sameold suspects, with no reason or explanation.So here are several questions that should be answered, in public,under oath, to clear the air:What was the precise conversation among Bernanke, Geithner,Paulson, and Blankfein that preceded the initial $80 billion grant?Was it already known who the counterparties were and what theexposure was for each of the counterparties?What did Goldman, and all the other counterparties, know aboutAIG’s financial condition at the time they executed the swaps orother contracts? Had they done adequate due diligence to seewhether they were buying real protection? And why shouldn’t theybear a percentage of the risk of failure of their own counterparty?What is the deeper relationship between Goldman and AIG? Didn’tthey almost merge a few years ago but did not because Goldmancouldn’t get its arms around the black box that is AIG? If that istrue, why should Goldman get bailed out? After all, they shouldhave known as well as anybody that a big part of AIG’s businessmodel was not to pay on insurance it had issued.Why weren’t the counterparties immediately and fully disclosedFailure to answer these questions will feed the populist rage thatis metastasizing very quickly. And it will raise basic questionsabout the competence of those who are supposedly guiding thiseconomic policy.Eliot Spitzer is the former governor of the state of New York.Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2213942/

blindcloneMarch 19th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

g,ok. this is the stuff i love. but..at first, i was thinking goldilocks let down her hair,but that wasn’t her. repunzle.then i realized there were 3 bears to deal with, not just one.and then i remembered that after she ate and found thenice bed she fell asleep. but i don’t think the storyindicates how long she slept. but…i still can’t remember if she is eaten by the bears or ifshe gets away with violating their privacy and stealingtheir lunch?

K in TXMarch 19th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

Yes, but it is small and has no storage space. That’s the closet where I keep my groceries.

RalphMarch 19th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

They don’t have to sell existing treasuries. They just have to stop buying new ones, the looming demand to fund US government spending is just huge. This demand cannot be met by attracting off shore investors, because the rate by which they are accumulating their surpluses is much reduced.That is not to say they won’t buy any – they just can’t buy at the volume the US requires to fund it’s spending deficit.Therefore the US must print money to cover the difference. Don’t get sidetracked by misunderstanding how they create the money – which won’t be by using a printing press literally.What happens to the US dollar at that point depends on how much money everyone else in the world is also “printing” – because everyone will be forced to print.If any one doesn’t print, their currency will rise to a rate as to completely destroy their export industries.Currency management is the new way to protect your economy.

blind mule manMarch 19th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

m,please forgive me if this post is “unresponsive” or in some waydeserving of an aforementioned award. so here it goes..( someone once told me it is easier to ask for forgiveness thanpermission. ).Ducksbreath … google this for the source…Dear Dr. Science,Why is it so funny when milk accidentally shoots out your nose?from Tony G…of ” Beaverton, OR”.”It isn’t funny, it’s tragic. It’s a waste of good milk and a violation of the integrity of your nasal mucosa. I once fired a lab assistant you spewed milk at me that way. He claimed it was an involuntary reaction to a knock knock joke, but I knew better. He was actually making an anti-intellectual statement, dismissing and demeaning everything Science stood for. I took it as a slap in the face, albeit a wet one. There’s nothing accidental about nasal dairy projection. “

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

@ RalphI completely agree with you. Perhaps the next “round robin” will be after the G20. I think you will enjoy the post by MA referred to above and By MA on 2009-03-18 14:11:52 below.hlowe

Little SaverMarch 19th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

The United States Of Ponzihttp://www.forbes.com/2009/03/18/american-economy-housing-bubble-madoff-opinions-columnists-ponzi.htmlAt the moment, the last one in the Ponzi row of investors is the Fed.Next one will be the American worker and taxpayer, although he never asked for this position. Others, managing his savings, his country, his institutions, managed him into this position. Too bad. Such are the results of short-sighted greedy take-what-you-can societies. Don’t ask the Iraqi’s for help. Don’t ask the jailed black youth for help. You didn’t care. They won’t.

RalphMarch 19th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

Hold on.The banking system is insolvent/bankrupt. The goal is to prop it up at any cost to stop the collapse of the wider economy; because our economies rely on the role of banks to broker payment between all parties. There is no functional backup to this system.The second goal is to kick off inflation to get the economy “growing”; at least in nominal terms. There is hope this can be done in a controlled manner, but we’ll take uncontrolled if we have to. Forward momentum creates options going forward that otherwise do not exist.Realistically, the problem of bank lending hasn’t made it to the table to be dealt with yet.Within that context the Fed’s actions can be painted as a steady hand at the wheel.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

Though I don’t believe in violence there are times for war, though I don’t believe in vulgarity there can be times for that as well. A thief has broken in our home(bond holders/creditors) and hopefully in some small way my vulgarity heightens your level of awareness. Hopefully that sickening feeling in your stomach from my vulgarity resonates in your subconscious enough that you don’t go to sleep or are tempted to believe the emperor is wearing clothes. There is a time an place for everything and right now anger is very appropriate. My vulgarity in context was for loving purposes aka fairness. It’s time to swear, holler and attack in every way you can think of until the thief becomes frightened and leaves our home. There’s never been a better time for hysteria!

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

FED need to print more dollar (another couple Trillion) to keep interest rate down… when treasury and agency bubble burst, it will be bad across the globe for treasury and agency holders.

GuestMarch 19th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

we just steping from credit crisis to currency crisis global scale. do you think purchase of MBS and agency will matter a squat? in currency crisis, what does it mean for USD? what do you think can mean to USD? certainly not positive. next question should we gonna step from currency crisis into what?

Octavio RichettaMarch 19th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

Good point. Doesn’t seem to me this is the stuff that makes someone deserve a #1 rating. But he called the recession ahead of ECRI, and he got the timing right.

MarkMarch 20th, 2009 at 2:55 am

I know exactly what you are saying.But if people weren’t repulsed enough with slaughtering others, Iraqis and Afghans (and abetting the slaughter of Palestinians), then can we really expect them to be upset enough here?As a burned out anti-war campaigner (and vet) I’m long past disgusted.Yes civility just means bending over for the elites (the ones commanding the real vulgarity).Mark

GuestMarch 20th, 2009 at 11:31 am

As I recall your original time frame was 3-6 months on the gold call.The dark clouds do part more frequently, but the sense of purpose has not returned. Head Stone is finally completed with pictures and messages. The anger I have with myself has not gone away and I’m sure never will. I do talk about it sometimes with his friends during our lunch outings, but not with my family to much as the pain is still somewhat debilitating. One of his friends I had been helping with college fees recently committed suicide, her mother told me her daughter suffered from depression and spiraled down after my loss. The church people are doing well. I do have a tenant we are trying to find a place for as she lost her job and can’t pay rent. Fortunately I can afford to not kick her onto the street.On a lighter note, unfortunately I did not go with my intuition regarding AIG and Citi over the last week after the statements of no nationalizing, and the big confidence boosters including Bernanke on 60 minutes. Now I’m even more scared of getting in and continue to just play it safe. If safe is still cash??Hlowe

GuestMarch 20th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

Woops, realized today that you had a “NEW” post on evaporflation, I didn’t know this when pulling from the past post.hlowe

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