Latest Roubini Interviews At Bloomberg on the US, EU and Japan Recessions
From Bloomberg:
Roubini, O’Neill See `Severe’ U.S., EU, Japan Recessions New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Chief Economist Jim O’Neill talk with Bloomberg’s Mark Barton about the outlook for the global economy, interest rates and financial markets in 2009. (Source: Bloomberg)
Bloomberg (Dec 24, 2008): Roubini, O’Neill See `Severe’ U.S., EU, Japan Recessions (click for video)
Bloomberg (Dec 24, 2008):Roubini, Sunshine Say U.S. Banking System Is `Insolvent’ (click for video)
New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini and Mark Sunshine, president of First Capital, talk with Bloomberg’s Pimm Fox about the outlook for the U.S. banking industry.
Roubini and Sunshine also discuss the U.S. housing market and the impact of a likely new economic stimulus plan on inflation. (Source: Bloomberg)
96 Responses to “Latest Roubini Interviews At Bloomberg on the US, EU and Japan Recessions”
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 8:58 am
yes numero uno!
JimmyTheBanker • December 26th, 2008 at 9:16 am
ECRI weekly leading index up for the 3rd week in a row! You can see that stocks must play a key role in helping to determine the direction of the index.
MA • December 26th, 2008 at 9:20 am
From Miss America, my latest calls and a focus on Fractional Reserves.http://www.rgemonitor.com/globalmacro-monitor/254883/merry_x-mess__happy_2000000000009#readcommentsHappy Holidays,MA
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 9:26 am
10:18 a.m. GM shares rally after financing division gets bank statusIt really is the end of the world isn’t it….
OR • December 26th, 2008 at 9:59 am
U.S. Recession to Persist in Months AheadReutersDecember 26, 2008(Reuters) – NEW YORK, Dec 26 (Reuters) – A measure of future economic growth in the United States and its annualized growth rate inched up in the latest week, but still indicate the U.S. recession is here to stay, a research group said on Friday.The Economic Cycle Research Institute, a New York-based independent forecasting group, said its Weekly Leading Index rose in the week ending Dec. 19 to 106.6 from 106.2 in the previous week.The index’s annualized growth rate edged up to negative 29.2 percent from minus 30.1 percent, initially reported at minus 30 percent.”With WLI growth barely above its all-time low seen two weeks ago, the U.S. recession will persist in the months ahead,” said Melinda Hubman, research associate at ECRI.The weekly index rose due to lower interest rates and higher stock prices and the gain was partly offset by higher joblessness, according to ECRI data.ECRI is perhaps the only organisation to give advance warning of each of the past three recessions; just as impressive, it has never issued a false alarm.- The Economist, Jan. ’05Not a Client?Go Pro Today!Read this jewel of a book and start your own personal cycle upturn.Jim GrantMore Information >GLOSSARY TERMS OF SERVICE PRIVACY POLICY CONTACThttp://www.businesscycle.com/news/press/1259/
CM • December 26th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Hmmmmmm, Falling interest rates and rising stock prices, hmmmmmmm, who can directly affect both of those, hmmmmmmmmm. Still think its just me?
JimmyTheBanker • December 26th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Where “REAL” banking takes place…http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB123007970447031843-lMyQjAxMDI4MzIwNjAyNzY5Wj.html
Oller • December 26th, 2008 at 10:40 am
The second video of the Professor and Mr Sunshine is a must see! I note a very qualitative change in the assertiveness of the professor. Towards the end the professor zeroes in on the crux of the problem. Treasurywill end up nationalizing the banks because of insolvency, but treasury has not exercised control to force them to lend. The U.S. Treasury should have recapitalized the banks akin to Britain. Treasury mustbe able to exercise control to increase the velocity of money or the recession will be protracted. Our problem is that the Banks rule us, we don’t rule thebanks. This is the crux of our problem. I suggest thatwe have a democratic fax campaign to our legislators expressing our outrage that they are owned by the banks and we as taxpayers are being literally cheated.The professor is right! Their needs to be a trillion dollar of recapitalization of the banks, but they mustbe nationalized and controlled or we will become japanese. We must talk about the fact that the banks are insolvent. Our true rulers are insolvent and since they wield incredible power they will take allthe lifeboats on the Titanic they created. We must put democratic pressure on our legislators. We are remiss when we listen to the professor without taking action. We are at an impasse, it is either the banks rule or the public interest rules. We must return toa mindset of pushing for the public interest. We haveall(myself included)lost our spirit of public responsibility. We either make democracy truly participatory or we will be subservient and docile tothe banking masters. You chose!!!
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 10:59 am
You are TOTALLY correct!!! Let’s get the campaign going. The banks are just hoarding the dollars and paying down their own debt to cover their own mistakes and greedy investments rather than lending to the people, and Congress is letting it happen.
OR • December 26th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Ashutan is not very optimistic, to put it mild:-)http://www.businesscycle.com/news/press/1257/
The question is, will you obey • December 26th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Pentagon To Build Multi-Robot Pursuit Systemhttp://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/10/pentagon_to_build_multirobot_pursuit_system.html
The Pentagon has issued a request to its contractors to develop a new Multi-Robot Pursuit System that is able to “search for and detect a non-cooperative human.” This basically means robots have been built in order to hunt down humans just like a pack of dogs – good thing to programme such a complicated piece of software won’t take just a few months, but probably many years down the road. These robots are also tipped to be equipped with human detection and tracking devices in order to aid their task. Other than the fact that this might lead to the MGS4 “Gekko” one day, I guess it is time we started to be good law-abiding citizens lest Uncle Sam unleashes such a technological beast on us in a sign of his wrath.
aerial view • December 26th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Good post! Small community banks who get to know their customers and make their own decisions for the direct benefit of their local town is what America should be about; unfortuately, the corporate elite with their lobbyists and influence on Washington see it quite differently!
aerial view • December 26th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Agree! I have a friend who was in the middle of a short sale waiting for the lst lender to accept the offer while the 2nd (Citimortgage-part of Citigroup who has been bailed out by Mr. Paulson) decided they were not willing to wait any longer and sent the paperwork over to their attorney to start foreclosure. Citimortgage’s response “it’s out of our hands now”! Unless, these major banks can be stopped from playing “supreme dictators” this economic crisis will just get worse!
MA • December 26th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Hello Oller.The way lending works is… Drum roll please: You need borrowers. (and borrowers need worthwhile investments)If your only borrowers are people who “need money” to pay for existing loans they already borrowed for… Then you are defeating the purpose of lending, and instead just multiplying the losses of these people/companies that are already overextended.The lending through fractional reserves that allows money to make money is on the assumption that the return after will be more on the interest spread (multiplied by it fractional ratio) over the defaults which are divided by the same ratio, minus expenses, redemptions, etc…Right now, lending is just filling in the voids, since there are no borrowers, because there are no real “investment opportunities” that are showing a favorable enough risk versus reward.I’ve argued for principal reduction quite a few times in the past. This is not so much about bailing out those under water…. as much as it’s about putting extra cash in the pockets of the foundation of our consumer economy. TPTB, which have intervened every step of the way on the Wall St end, are risking the fate of the economy because the one thing they can not really control is the consumer and their sentiment.Miss America
MA • December 26th, 2008 at 11:39 am
did you just make a metal gear solid reference??? Me thinks that is lost on this community?!?!
EB • December 26th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Mr. Roubini,Your call on the US recession was well argumented and is vindicated now.The next step will probably be a different story because your call for a reflation is a continuation of the Greenspan/Bernankee policies with the current unfolding results.Explore the trade deficit issue and after doing the maths, you’ll see that it’s become a kind of huge perpetual deficit. The US has no significant exporting capability and imports 2/3 of its consumed goods (durable and non durable).So what’s the aim of the government and Fed reflations? Supporting oil prices, foreign imports? Perpetuation of external deficits?If you factor this missing piece in your analysis, it shows a cul de sac issue to solve before any US economic renaissance.Interesting challenge for this financial economy.
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
The United Auto Workers may be out of the hole now that President Bush has approved a $17 billion bailout of the U.S. auto industry, but the union isn’t out of the bunker just yet.Even as the industry struggles with massive losses, the UAW brass continue to own and operate a $33 million lakeside retreat in Michigan, complete with a $6.4 million designer golf course. And it’s costing them millions each year.
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
As long as suckers finance withdrawals, it works. Welcome to Madoff country.
ptm • December 26th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
More gold gold backwardation!The price just jumped $20 to $870. The dollar index is unchanged and oil slipped down to $36/barrel.Gold has now risen $100/oz since the beginning of December! I believe this the longest backwarddation period in recorded history and there have only been a handful.I’m guessing these tremors foreshadowing a currency earth quake…
Hayes • December 26th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
further to yesterday’s post this update from today’s New York Times:Pakistan Moves Forces as Tensions With India RisePublished: December 26, 2008
ISLAMABAD — Pakistan is moving some troops away from its western border with Afghanistan, where the United States has pressed it to combat Taliban militants, and stopping many soldiers from going on leave amid rising tensions with India, senior Pakistani officials said Friday.A senior military official said in an interview that the decision to sharply restrict leave for soldiers was taken “in view of the prevailing environment,” namely the deteriorating relations with India since the Mumbai terrorist attacks last month. He added that the Pakistani air force was “vigilant” and “alert”…Read more
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
we are being deceived.i have lived through several recessions and there wasn’t this degree of doom and gloom associated with any of them. my dad, mom and grandparents went through the great depression and none of them ever mentioned it; it came, it went and life continued.what is so different about this downturn that has everyone in such a panic?henry paulson’s initial request for 700 billion dollars seems more like a ransom demand: sudden and done without any consultation with the president or relevant members of congress. it’s as if america, a country with nuclear weapons and the means and will to use them, was suddenly threatened with destruction unless the money is handed over.and the animosity shown towards the auto industry is even more baffling. the theory that it is aimed at destroying the autoworkers union makes no sense in a country where less than 15 percent of the work force is unionized. if consumer confidence is essential to our economy why would several million people be threatened with the immediate loss of their jobs?something else is going on here. and it is not what we are being told
PeteCA • December 26th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
OllerIt’s not hard for them to overcome this problem at the present time. Especially in view of the extreme steps already taken by the Fed. How could eyebrows be raised if they take another extreme step??? So … the solution is simple. The Fed monetizes debt directly to the Government, and the Gov’t puts in place massive spending programs (new federal programs). This bypasses the blockage at the banks completely. The Gov’t just starts giving massive handouts – through new employment programs and stimulus awards to selected areas of the economy.This is exactly what Pres. Obama is proposing to do. It’s a direct line of continuity with what the Fed/Treasury are currently planning.PeteCA
Paul • December 26th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
GuestWhat do you think it is?
Softwarengineer • December 26th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
$12/HR TEMPORARY WORKERS AT TOYOTA CITY JAPAN ARE ABOUT HALF THE TOYOTA COMPANY WORKFORCEAnd that’s about what they’ll pay our American workers when/if the Big Three die off; assuming they don’t close all our American plants, period….ask Mississippi….I’d rather have an economy and a house I can sell than global wage deterioration depression with no US unions. But open border clowns run this country?
Average Jane • December 26th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Absolutely one hundred percent right, Miss America. I too have been hollering about reducing principal. Doesn’t appear that’s going to happen, though, because TPTB simply must reflate the housing bubble. It is utter insanity.And every single news outlet I’ve watched in the past week has carried story after story about consumer spending. I am so sick of it. When there is a serious environmental disaster in beautiful Tennessee. What size was that spill there? Oh, yeah. Forty times larger than the Exxon Valdez spill.Where is the outrage?
Average Jane • December 26th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Yep, race to the bottom, softwarengineer. As I said to my coworker the other day, how do you expect your son, who’ll graduate from college in two years with an engineering degree, to compete with an engineer in India that’ll work for a salary five percent what your son thinks he’s entitled to make?
Tom Z • December 26th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
The root cause is US workers have not been able to create real wealth to support a standard of living they are used to. No amount of financial ‘engineering’, no amount of money/credit creation, no amount of trade policy adjustment, no amount of budgetary tricks can change that. The facts of the past 15 years overwhelmingly proved this thesis. All these tricks have only delayed the reckoning, and now have resulted in financial, economic and soon-to-be social collapse.The only way out is to build things of real value, earn the money, save the money, invest the savings in human capital, which will sustain the wealth curve.Given the sorry state the US now finds itself in – low education level, reduced creativity, zombie and TV-washed young generation, outdated infrastructure, pervasive profound corruption, etc. fixing this country will take a generation.Don’t fool yourself my friend. It will take A GENERATION. Provided the new generation has what it takes. Don’t invest in the stock market and all those stupid things. Invest in the 10-15 year old and nurture them like mad so that when they are 25 lots of new Bill Gates and real scientists will appear.
jomos • December 26th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Looks like your shorting opportunities have reappeared
Brett • December 26th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
You can turn this question around and ask how will India and China survive when their people don’t have the money to make up for the loss of American consumer damand.
blindman • December 26th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
g,.perhaps the american public is being preconditioned to accept future “astronomic” levels of personal debt. both financial and physical. however, it is psychological, the limit of debt a person or business will tolerate. a matter of personal speculation and capacity to service. the investment bankers have had no trouble with this, becoming distribution centers for fraudulent securities and incurring massive losses, but the average person has been more cautious in some cases. maybe we are being told we need to be more reckless and irrational with more money and personal safety concerns to be in step with the profits and fees big banks require? perhaps now they would like the average person to share in their new found anti-wealth strategy to take over the world?.then again it looks like some big banks are screwed and they will do anything it takes to recover former status-standing. they have been living a deluded lie and now, even they know it. these are private international institutions with free access to public funds and they could not make that work? they screwed up a moist dream,(great gimmick) so to speak. that is the great power of deregulation. they have total access to the legal, political, military and judicial aspects of government as well as the media from coast to coast and beyond. unfortunately for us, we have frequently played right into their scheme, proudly and enthusiastically. described accurately in “fear and loathing in las vegas” h. thomson..it is just horrible the way national security and intelligence is tied up withthe financial and political bozo’s and they all have sacrificed their humanity and capacity to relate in even the remotest way with working people, with the exception of eating our lunches for us..the conceptual model literally dehumanizes labor (working people-the “consumer”) rendering it-us a “factor” in production to be reduced to ideally, nothing. no value.contradiction being, the consumer is working people, labor. the source.the model fails systemically when the consumer has no savings, purchasing power or credit. 2009.insolvent by irrational exuberance ignorance and fraud.adults behaving like children with other peoples money to maintain a feeling of youthfulness. that’s what i would say if you asked me what’s going on.”gould’s book of fish, a novel in 12 fish”. richard flanagan.again, the CM sells many products but they do not sell, nor can be bought, that which we seek.
Average Jane • December 26th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
There is that too, Brett. Perhaps all of us “consumers” should re-think just exactly what we’re spending our money on, discretionary and otherwise. I daresay the term “necessity” means something different in India and China than it does in America.
Average Jane • December 26th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
A joy to read your posts, blindman. Thank you.
Average Jane • December 26th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Lovely thought, Tom Z, to invest in the kids. And you are right, it will take a generation to shovel our way through this pile of sheep dip.
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
I think the implication is that direct government spending ala (new deal) wouldn’t be enough and would take too long to implement, they have to find away to get banks to lend quickly before too many more job losses.
Novice • December 26th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
they want us to believe that the system is broke, so that a new world economic system will not only be possible but desired.
Tilak Ratnayake FCMA • December 26th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
professor NR has clearly broaden our understanding about the present global economic mess.Thank U vey much NR.
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
paul i don’t know. and those who do aren’t saying. but i do know that i’ve lived long enough to know what we’re being told isn’t true.
Guest • December 26th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
anyone know if gmac bond holders agreed to the debt swap?
Anonymous • December 26th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
“How to Win Friends and Influence People – the CIA way.”:Little Blue Pills Among the Ways CIA Wins Friends in AfghanistanBy Joby WarrickWashington Post Staff WriterFriday, December 26, 2008; A01The Afghan chieftain looked older than his 60-odd years, and his bearded face bore the creases of a man burdened with duties as tribal patriarch and husband to four younger women. His visitor, a CIA officer, saw an opportunity, and reached into his bag for a small gift.Four blue pills. Viagra.”Take one of these. You’ll love it,” the officer said. Compliments of Uncle Sam.The enticement worked. The officer, who described the encounter, returned four days later to an enthusiastic reception. The grinning chief offered up a bonanza of information about Taliban movements and supply routes — followed by a request for more pills.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/25/AR2008122500931_pf.html
blindman • December 27th, 2008 at 12:18 am
tyaj.
blindman • December 27th, 2008 at 1:37 am
Analysis Last Updated: Dec 19th, 2008 – 02:00:58http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4153.shtml#top——————————————————————————–London Banker: “The market has failed, and officialdom is perpetuating that failure”By Mike WhitneyOnline Journal Contributing Writer.Dec 19, 2008, 00:28. …….. excerpt ……………….Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and presidential adviser Lawrence Summers believe they can fire off a massive stimulus salvo and put the economy back on track, but it will take more than that. The financial system needs fundamental structural reform and both men rose to power because they proved themselves loyal defenders of the status quo. Geithner and Summers may nibble at the edges and make grandiloquent proclamations about rebuilding the system, but when it’s time to pull the trigger, they will subvert every attempt to regulate or oversee the system which they feel is the sole province of the establishment elites who own the big financial institutions. There’s bound to be plenty of blasting trumpets and celebratory confetti to greet Obama’s economic whiz kids. Just don’t expect change. Barring a complete economic meltdown, the rot at the heart of the system will continue to fester and grow under Obama just as it did under Bush and Clinton.How can one maintain a free market system when financial institutions are not allowed to fail?And how can such a system function properly without stop signs, guard rails, speed limits or rules that determine what side of the road one can drive?And how can confidence be strengthened when no one pays for predatory lending, ratings manipulation, malfeasance, fraud, or any other whitecollar crime? So far, not one indictment has been served in the biggest financial swindle of all time. That’s not how a “rules-based” system is supposed to operate.Meanwhile, the economy continues to deteriorate faster than anyone expected……….
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 2:37 am
I’m thinking of buying CD’s in other currency to hedge against the decline of the dollar. I wonder if some of you would be so kind as to advise me which currencies might be the best choices?http://www.everbank.com/001Currency.aspxIncidentally, I noticed that while they send you a 1099 for the interest, they do NOT send any record of your profits/losses. Accounts are FDIC insured, but not against losses in value of currency.
blindman • December 27th, 2008 at 2:40 am
t,.military intelligence leading the way to a battered tomorrow. priorities?how about the vets get some real services for their medical, educational and living assistance needs? low interest VA small business loans? something that doesn’t result in maiming, killing and hatred. cutting edge stuff. peaceful. we probably already have the software and the hardware..we don’t have the wisdom or the heart to apply it and you only get that through irretrievable loss of something that is so dear that you have no choice but to die to your world view. for a moment then you are free to recreate the world with perspective, wisdom and vision. i should think we’ve lost enough if anyone is paying attention, even with the “embedded” ignorance . CM devolving. but then again, iv’e spent most of my life being wrong on this..are they going to name this thing the “peacekeeper”, or “justice vision”, or the “interrogator-eliminator”? hmmm. the bias will be achieved in the design, structure-function trap.??.did you ever see “lars and the real girl”? now that’s what i’m talkin’ about. low tech but effective.
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 3:56 am
A major problem with the economy now is the loss of productivity caused by too many people reading/responding to blogs and/or surfing the internet for free instead of engaging in productive work which earns money.
Little Saver • December 27th, 2008 at 4:29 am
Intelligent use of internet is highly productive. It generates highly useful information increasing the efficiency of the real economy. Dumb use may be counterproductive, although it may keep dumb people away from doing more harmful things. So, I’m even not sure that the overall result of dumb use of the internet gives a negative end result.
Little Saver • December 27th, 2008 at 4:40 am
From the LB article, I remembered this phrase:”It’s this simple: I won’t invest in a country that bails out failure and punishes savers. I won’t invest in the US or UK until they change course and protect savers and investors, ensuring a reasonably predictable positive return . . .”Follow good policies, don’t let bad policies feed on your savings.
RED • December 27th, 2008 at 4:49 am
I live in Australia and will give you some more facts over and above the everbank summary- Australia has four major banks all AA rated (four of 15 left in the world). All have been given a government guarantee AAA guarantee during the financial crises.- Australia is a commodity based economy (both hard and soft), which means as long as the world needs commodities, there is demand for the Australian currency (supporting its value)- Australia is one of the world’s largest exporter of iron ore, coal, and wheat. Significant producer of Gold, Nickel, Copper, Uranium, and many other commod’s.- We run a current account deficit, which means we consume more than we export (like americans), but this is changing in the current environment.- WELL REGULATED – australians believe that regulation is part of who we are as a nation. Giving people a fair go is part of the australian ethos and while big business gets its day, their is proper regulation, particularly in the finance areaI could go on and on, but if you want to know more post an email and I’ll follow up.
Paul • December 27th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Thanks blindman, always a pleasure to read your posts.
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 6:24 am
What is your work, Guest?Are you a chinese?
FAMC • December 27th, 2008 at 6:29 am
I do not know if you refer to this site. This site is like a good book, with interesting posts and well-written commentaries.Some sites/services are trash sites but you need to be more specific.
FAMC • December 27th, 2008 at 6:50 am
b,What is the main function of the fractional banking system?Imagine… 2000 years ago.Imagine… Cattle is the money.Some smart guy (banker) creates cattle certificates.Then king X allow the banker to issue more certificates than available cattle.The banker promises to control the quantitity of certificates (FOMC)to maintain a “moderate price inflation” based on an index the establishment creates.The banker pays some “economists” to support the systems with abstract complicated theories.Who benefits from the scheme?Answer: The banker, The king (banker “helps” king to pay his debt)This is your system.Legal counterfeited money + CPI(modified frome the original definition)+ “control” of CPI by FOMC operations.People NEED to understand this system. I intend to create a game, like monopoly.It will be named Fractional Bank. I will be the Central Banker. You play, you lose. I win. Always.
James • December 27th, 2008 at 7:11 am
We just need to do something about the cost of education. It isn’t reasonable to have people right out of college saddled with a mortgage worth of student loans. Right out of the starting gate and they are handicapped.
AfA • December 27th, 2008 at 7:55 am
Welcome to the club, dude.
AfA • December 27th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Even if this comes a bit late, I wish all of you happy celebration season, no matter which you are celebrating.
OuterBeltway • December 27th, 2008 at 8:33 am
BrainTrust: What Is Power, and How Can We Get It?While the BrainTrust debates the core problems with our economy and the strategy we’ll use to accomplish our mission, it’s important to remember that effecting change requires power.Let’s recall our mission statement:
“We are going to build and use grass-roots power to influence the evolution of the global economy.”
If we are to build power, we must develop an accurate shared understanding of what power is and how it is acquired.Definition of PowerPower is the ability to influence other people’s behavior.Mechanisms for Application of PowerThe conduits by which power is exerted include:Relationship. If you have a relationship with someone, even if it’s a bad relationship, you have influence over that person.Information. You’ve heard the expression “knowledge is power”. If you know something that is of vital interest to someone, you have potential power over that person. If you have a reputation for having good information, you exert even more influence over people’s behaviorForce. The threat of harming someone exerts influence over that person’s behavior.Authority. The state’s power over the citizen is based on the agreed-upon social contract, and from the state’s right to use force to impose society’s will upon the individualControl over scarce resources. If you have something others really need, you can influence their behaviorAs the BrainTrust contemplates the formation and use of “grass-roots power”, it will help us if we understand what forms power can take. What forms of power are we able to employ? We will not likely be granted any Authority, and hopefully we won’t be resorting to Force.It seems more reasonable that we will be able to amass and deploy power using the Information and Relationship mechanisms. We may also elect to use our organization to build and control some key resources.Once we complete the Goals segment of our analysis over the next week or two, we will move directly into the Strategy discussion. Our strategy, in broadest terms, will be to amass and then apply power. The question is “what form of power will we amass, and how, and then what pressure-points will we apply it upon?” I invite you to consider this essay on power closely as you participate in the BrainTrust debates over the next few weeks.
Hayes • December 27th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Still not clear if GMAC cleared hurdle for bailoutGRAND BLANC, Mich. (AP) — The financing arm of General Motors Corp. still wouldn’t say on Saturday if it had met a midnight deadline to clear a final hurdle in its bid to become a bank holding company and gain access billions in federal bank bailout money.GMAC Financial Services LLC had received the Federal Reserve’s approval earlier in the week, but needed to complete a complicated debt-for-equity exchange by 11:59 p.m. EST Friday.In an e-mail early Saturday, GMAC spokeswoman Gina Proia did not provide any specifics.”The offer did expire yesterday at 11:59 p.m. as planned. We have not yet issued final results but intend to in the near term. I have no further comment on the exchange until then,” she wrote.
Oller • December 27th, 2008 at 9:18 am
It is an ambitious endeavor to develop a grass roots power strategy. I commend you! I have beenlooking at the development of our culture since the 1970s and it is apparent that the mass media plays a truly hypnotic role in preventing the normal american from engaging in true analysis and thought.The corporate media is truly omnipotent. This is akin to “1984″ but very subliminal. The powerful have employed very sophisticated techniques to make us salivate at will. Mobilization of the electorate to vote in their financial interest can be intercepted with bogus cultural issues,nationalism,and other time tested devices of attention diversion. You are right to apply rigorous analysis prior to entering such an endeavor. These are larger and more menacing windmills than Quixote faced
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Will Obama be America’s Yeltsin and sell off the nation?by Robert Scheer and by Michael Hudson(a pair of articles trimmed and blended) found here: http://www.progress.org/2008/writeoff.htmObama Chooses Wall Street Over Main StreetBarack Obama is picking the very folks who helped get us into this financial mess to now try and lead us out of it.Obama picked Larry Summers and Timothy Geithner, protégés of Robert Rubin, Chairman of Citigroup Executive Committee. Geithner, thanks in part to the recommendation of Rubin, has been chairman of the New York Federal Reserve Bank and the main government official charged with regulating Citigroup. After Rubin called the Treasury recently, Geithner could hammer out a bailout deal for Citigroup.The bailout brings to $45 billion the taxpayer money thrown at Citigroup and the guarantee of $306 billion for the bank’s toxic securities. In contrast with the bailout of AIG, this arrangement leaves the executives, including Rubin, who brought Citigroup to the brink of ruin, still in charge.So, just as Rubin and Co. at Citi were being bailed out by the Bush administration, President-elect Barack Obama was announcing a new economic team drawn almost entirely from Rubin acolytes.You can see the feathers coming out of their mouths as the foxes are once again put in charge of the henhouse.The Obama Letdown: The Neo-Yeltsin Administration?The US media focus on personalities, not on the economic forces at work. The super rich concentrate their wealth and power in the financial, insurance, and real estate (FIRE) sectors and foreign policy. That one 1% of Americans raised their share of the returns to wealth from 37% ten years ago to 57% five years ago and an estimated nearly 70% today. The government bails out the rich on their financial investments, but not wage earners on their debts. Mr. Obama, change that.He may give wage earners an income-tax break — thereby enabling them to keep on paying their bank debts. As for the rich, they prefer not to earn income in the first place. Taxes need to be paid on income, so they take their returns in the form of capital gains. In the present meltdown, simply avoiding losses is the order of the day.To participate in a hedge fund, one needs to prove that one can afford to lose their money and not be much worse off. So the $306 billion in federal guarantees of the junk mortgage packages sold by Citibank, and the $135 billion bailout of the insurance contracts written by AIG to protect swap contracts from loss, could have been avoided. The rich could have taken the hit.If the subprime and other mortgages had been permitted to decline to the neighborhood of 22 cents on a dollar they were trading for, this would have made it possible to write down the debts to the price that mortgage holders had paid without much impact on the “real” economy. Instead, unlike previous busts, bad business debts are being transferred from the banks to the federal government, mainly the Federal Reserve and Treasury. Bloomberg has added up these programs and finds they already stand at $7.7 trillion dollars — half an entire year’s GDP.By preventing a write-down and keeping bad-mortgage loans inflated, the bailouts maintain the service charges on this indebtedness. Paying those charges diverts peoples’ income from consumption to paying creditors. That helps financial investors, not labor or industry. It keeps the cost of living and doing business high, preventing the economy from working its way out of debt by becoming competitive once again.With all these trillions of dollars of bailing out the wealthy, what is being left out? For one thing, the government’s indebted Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. State and local pension plans are almost entirely unfunded, and are at even more risk as their tax revenues plunge and property tax payments are stopped on housing and commercial buildings that have foreclosed. If the big three Detroit companies declare bankruptcy, that would annul their defined-benefit pension plans.To administer the bailouts, Obama, with Robert Rubin as his economic advisor, has appointed the same “Yeltsin” team who sponsored Russia’s privatization giveaways in the mid-1990s that brought the kleptocrats to power. These include Rubin protégés Larry Summers, who as head of the World Bank forced privatization at give-away prices to kleptocrats; Geithner of the New York Fed; and a monetarist economist. Whereas Obama’s economic team made fortunes for Russian kleptocrats by giving them public-sector assets already in place, their American counterparts are going to have to get richer by actually building new projects.This is where Obama’s Chicago political experience comes in handy. Obama’s mentors — the Pritzker family, the University of Chicago, and assorted real estate reverends — with public support rebuilt vast central sites and reaped hundreds of millions of dollars. Infrastructure spending will be just one more item adding to America’s debt overhead to make its economy even less competitive with foreign ones than it is.Real estate owners on favorably situated sites will sell out to buyers-on-credit, creating a vast new and profitable loan market for banks. Real estate remains the largest asset category in every economy today, just as much as under feudalism. Then landlords received the rental value of land; today it’s the mortgage banker.The gains from providing better transport infrastructure typically are larger than the costs. London’s tube extension to Canary Wharf, for example, cost the city £8 billion and increased real estate values along the route by some £13 billion. The city could have financed the entire project by issuing bonds that would have been repaid out of taxes levied on the nearby sites made more valuable. Residents in general wouldn’t have to pay, and riders could enjoy subsidized fares.A president-elect still bragging about his “mandate for change” could close loopholes and recover the socially-generated values of prime locations.
Hayes • December 27th, 2008 at 9:26 am
This is an interesting interview with a dude who writes a newsletter who uses charts and astronomy/astrology to predict the markets – His return in 2008 was +42%. I remember seeing him interviewed a few years back when the markets were tanking, the interview was conducted almost as a joke. It seems he is more mainstream now as both MarketWatch and CNBC have done stories on him. CNBC Interview with Arch Crawford Market Watch story 2008′s star newsletter profits from the starsCommentary: Arch Crawford uses astrology to head Top Ten list
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Diamonds among the ashes — or scum that’s floated to the top? A distressing number of bad-tempered readers want to believe the latter. But although 2008′s top performers are a new lot, at least some of them look surprisingly solid.Of course, it was a disastrous year. The dividend-reinvested Dow Jones Wilshire 5000 was down 38.3% over the year to date ending in November.But the winner, Arch Crawford’s Crawford Perspectives, gained 42.4%, a performance that would have gotten into the top 10 most any year. Crawford is a veteran technically-oriented timer who is famous for openly discussing astrology…
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Yup
OuterBeltway • December 27th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Oller:The ironic thing about it is that the “what’s next” economy will not favor the rich and powerful any more than it does the weak. If the middle-class founders, there is no basis for the power of the “powerful”.The powerful will soon realize that a strong middle class is absolutely crucial to their survival.You will see a tactics-shift, but it will originate from the bottom, not the top.It needs to be said that not all rich and powerful are bad; some actually earned what they have, and some read history, and some are hopeful about what humanity can become.One adjunct dimension of amassing power is the team-selection process. I hope some readers will give this aspect its proper due. Recruitment and relationship-building are crucial, and some powerful people are worth including.Think on it. What is our recruitment criteria?
aerial view • December 27th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Just a thought before I forget: a possible unifying idea of “accountability and punishment” for the main players in this financial crisis; i.e. boycotts; public does no business with these corporations until justice is restored. Money is and will always be the greatest motivator for the greedy to change!
OuterBeltway • December 27th, 2008 at 10:11 am
They also have to figure out where to apply resources into the economy that will have sustainable impact. You can only do massive stimulus a few times before running out of borrowing power. If the first few tries under Obama mis-fire as badly as the last few tries under Bush, stimulus will fail.Finance types don’t know how to create wealth. That observation includes Mr. Summers and Mr. Geithner and Mr. Rubin. Their job is (theoretically) to allocate resources. If only they would re-learn their craft.Engineers, inventors, scientists and entrepreneurs are the ones that create wealth. The vast workforce implements, but the thinkers find the new ways to create wealth.Finance is irrelevant if no wealth is being created. I did say “irrelevant”. Where do you allocate resources if there are no investment-worthy projects?Well, if you’re unwise, you blow bubbles and defraud your trusting, credulous citizenry, using housing, oil, and commodities as the pump-and-dump mechanism.If one was truly wise, those resources would have been allocated to basic research and then to commercialization.To my dear friends in the Finance industry: How does one create wealth?
ex VRWC • December 27th, 2008 at 10:13 am
We need some good protest music. Here is the start of one I am putting together – ‘Bailout Nation’:The land where freedom ringsSweet land of libertyThe land of boundless hopeAnd opportunityThe land where you can dreamAnd work to make it trueOh my AmericaWhat has become of you?(Chorus)In a bailout nation who will standFor every common man?While we watch our children’s future dieAnd the bankrupt rape the landWhile the greedy and the selfishThey keep holding out their handHow much treasure will we grant them?When will it end?I need a second verse. Suggestions? Try out your lyric writing skills and get your anger out there in a creative medium! I have the melody – I will post it once I record it. Its kind of a sixty-ish protest tune.ex VRWC
aerial view • December 27th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Another thought: Since the govt has deemed certain corps “too big to fail”, then in exchange for the bailout using taxpayer’s money, give every taxpayer shares in the company so that we all benefit equally when the company restores itself to profitability. This will make them think”long and hard” about future irresponsible actions! I don’t know any American (except for the top .01%)who would be against this!
Anonymous • December 27th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I have also been thinking buying Aussie in late 2009.
PeteCA • December 27th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Keep in mind that Everbank actually banks your money in a US bank, and then uses futures transactions in the currency markets to produce the trades you want. If you have confidence in this kind of financial transaction, plus the stability of the bank itself, then the choice of currency transaction is up to you.PeteCA
OuterBeltway • December 27th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Work that thread, AV. You’ve introduced the concept of the “powerful motivator”. Greedy people really hate to lose money. It’s their identity, and nothing hurts more, except if they lose money and their peers find out about it.What are the ways that everyday people like you and I could make a huge impact on the bottom line (not so much the revenue line, but the profitability) of enterprises that steal from the commons?What are some ways to accomplish this that don’t require anyone’s permission or cooperation to implement?
blindman • December 27th, 2008 at 11:05 am
f, you copyright it produce it and i will buy it, play it and force it on my offspring.
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Are you a Chinese back to you, racist bastard.
tutterfrut • December 27th, 2008 at 11:14 am
The land where housing wasa place to raise a familyTo welcome othersand live happilyIt used to store our wealthand dreams and memoryIt now stores debtfrom taken out equity
aerial view • December 27th, 2008 at 11:21 am
I can imagine your lyrics slightly modified to work well with Barry McGuire’s “Eve of Destruction”; the ultimate 60′s protest song!
FAMC • December 27th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Anger?We will need to call Dr. Buddy Rydell
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 11:35 am
You’re free. And freedom is beautiful. And, you know, it’ll take time to restore chaos and order – order out of chaos. But we will.
President Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2003So remember this on January 20th, folks: you are free.(until further notice, at least)
Hayes • December 27th, 2008 at 11:42 am
The Economic Meltdown: Dismantling, Yes; Doom, NoSeeking Alpha December 26, 2008
Yes, Christmas and all that turkey derailed our 2008 review / 2009 preview series, so yesterday’s scheduled piece on Venture Capital will be published later than sooner. But speaking of venture capitalists, this morning I was reading Fred Wilson’s piece called Bits of Destruction, in which he argues that while the causes of the economic meltdown “have more to do with risky lending and owning securities that are toxic than anything else” he argues that the consequence will be the death of many doomed industries whose days are numbered due to the Information Revolution.It is a fascinating argument, but an incorrect, or rather, incomplete one. The truth is, Read more
James • December 27th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
The poor and huddled massesWere promised jobs and food.But all that’s left for themIs indentured servitude.Bush said “Wall Street got drunk”.But he supplied the booze.While the rich only get richer,Our sons and daughters lose.Here’s a good rhyming dictionary.
blindman • December 27th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
h,.correct. imo, profound insight that should stop us in our tracks……In fact, the 21st century was to be a century that saw America start to share power with Russia, China and India. But during George W. Bush’s reign, the US imploded due to a foreign policy which can be described at best as greedy and arrogant and at worst criminal.Regardless of your thoughts on the war, the simple result of combineda) increased spending on the war andb) tax cuts for the wealthyresulted in loose money, easy credit which then in turn led to the housing bubble.To this day, mainstream media starts the story on Chapter 2: the Housing bubble, easily forgetting that Chapter 1 of this history is in fact this illegal and immoral war that is costing Iraqi civilian and US soldiers’ lives for no reason. We can say all that we want about greed on Wall Street and whatnot, but the real cause goes back to Washington DC for setting such a poor example for everyone else to follow….
blindman • December 27th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
g,if you get that memo tear it up and recycle it.
Hayes • December 27th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Firstto post that there is aNEW THREAD
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
this thread sound just a bit as if the 50s revisit is finally over and back to the time of overthrowing is making a comeback. this time lets not use drugs
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
This statement perfectly implies how multi-corporations exploited labor in China thereby ultimately undermining American demand. Essentially the global playing field is being leveled but at huge costs to the U.S. and western economies. Big business simply doesn’t care that 3 or 4 generations of americans will greatly suffer the leaders/ elitists just look at it as sacrifices having to be made. What’s sick is the people making these changes and decisions, the economists, the business leaders and the politicians none of them are as affected by their tinkering- they talk of sacrifice but that doesn’t include them.
blindman • December 27th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
ob one,.i don’t know that i agree with the definition of power here..”Power is the ability to influence other people’s behavior.” ?i think that is authority. a secondary system, not primary.power, primary system, i would say, is the ability to freely exercise your will. it is real wealth. knowledge and confidence brought about by studied, considered and tested understanding. experience.the difference is power can be witnessed by the unknowing and be admired making authority obsolete. that is the way we people work.the logical process is differentiate and then appropriately integrate energy flow through a structure to accomplish a function. the self freely interacting with the Self.??at least that is what my notes tell me.
Guest • December 27th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Thank you all…one of the things I love about this site is the patience, generousity and kindness shown to “Guest” and “Anon”.
ex VRWC • December 27th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Good lyrics James and tutterfrut. Will need a bit of modification to fit the melody which only exists in my head! Makes it a bit hard to write a verse. I will post on my blog when done. Thanks.ex VRWC
Canadian • December 28th, 2008 at 5:32 am
Pretty much same situation in Canada, except no deficit for the past 11 years – there will be a deficit this year though.
Vladimir • December 28th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Sunshine showed one crucial limitation in Roubini’s economic analysis and political imagination. He was right to correct Roubini that it WAS possible to restore financial liquidity and revive real economy, or at least save what could be saved from it. He was doubly right in his quick reaction to Roubini’s change of tune that it was “not a liquidity, but solvency crisis”: Let the banks bite the dust and solve THEIR solvency crisis in the heavens and nationalize them! That’s how easy it is… for the government of the people, but not for the government of bankers. What Sunshine was saying was that the doom of US private banking and investment does not have to be the doom of the American people. But Roubini was clearly unwilling to consider the people’s solution of the “solvency crisis.” This is not what our universities give doctorate degrees in economics for. And this is not what Summers, Saks, and Geitner expects Roubini to talk about. I really enjoyed this video. It is the first time that I saw this question raised in the corporate media: Does the doom of financial capitalism must become the doom of our nation? Dr. Doom didn’t answer it, Mr. Sunshine did.
Anonymous • December 28th, 2008 at 11:32 am
“Are you right or are you lucky”. With all due respect to Roubini, you’d have to be a moron not to have foreseen this financial crisis. I am no Nouriel Robini so I cannot articulate as well as he, the scope or the breadth of this crisis. But I have watched with increasing alarm ever since George Bush got elected the reckless policies and blind indifference of this Administration. From the “deficits don’t matter” proclamation of Dick Cheney, to the trillion dollar war in Iraq for which the bill was foisted onto future Presidents and future generation to the multiple warnings regarding the insane mortgage practices that the banks were engaging in, in the NYTimes, Nightline, and selected other sources. It couldn’t have been clearer that trouble was coming and it was going to be HUGE. What makes me mad as hell is that all those supposedly “smart” Harvard MBAs and those overpaid CEO’s of America’s financial industry claimed not to have seen it coming. That’s just bullshit! Its the same type of lying garbage that the Bush Administration engaged in about “Iraq being responsible for 9/11 and weapons of mass destruction”. History will reflect upon a deceitful, greedy, arrogant and indifferent political and corporate elite that lied consistently and shamelessly to the people for their own shortsighted political and monetary gain.The Main Stream Media also share in the responsibility. They should have been banging the drum DOING THEIR JOBS and challenging the status quo. This mess did not need a Nouriel Roubini to predict it. A blind, deaf and dumb imbecile could have predicted it.Will it get worse? You’re damn right it will. If you watched 60 minutes a few weeks ago it clearly explained that another 2 trillion dollars of ARMs (ajustable reset mortgages) are just beginning to come due. And it is estimated that 75% of these mortgages will default. Think this recession (depression is just about over). Its only just begun! If the first round of sub-prime mortgages didn’t bankrupt the banks the second round of ARMS and then the commercial mortgages and credit card debt will. Hang onto your balls and hope for the best.
Guest • December 28th, 2008 at 11:42 am
You are right of course. What amazes me is how stupid we all are. How could the American people elect such an imbecile to power? How could supposedly smart business elite’s not see what was coming? They did. They just didn’t care. They were more interested in their bonuses and all that money they were making. Quite simply what they were engaging in a Ponzi scheme to create the illusion of profits. And the money came from all over the world, China, Japan, Korea, the Middle East. But my question is, how could they NOT see what was coming? Are they really that dumb. Apparently so.
Anonymous • December 28th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Even though I am a big Obama supporter I have to agree with you. Why are the cast of villains who are largely responsible for this mess being appointed to clean up this mess? Talk about the fox being put in charge of the hen house.If there is one thing we should have learned from this mess its that public partisanship is ruinous to our collective good. We the public have got to keep an eye on what is going on DEMAND that our political and corporate elites are held accountable.
Anonymous • December 28th, 2008 at 11:58 am
You didn’t have to be very bright to make money in this bear market. Anybody with half a brain should have been shorting the market when the market first broke in October 2007 and knowing full well that the sub-prime mess was going to put us all into a bear market that would be more severe than the last bear market of 2001- 2003. The market is now down by roughly 40% the inverse of that is 1.66. In other words just simply by shorting the market you would have made a 66% return on your money. If its so simple to make money why didn’t more people do so? You’ve got to remember that the vast majority (98%) of the public are followers not leaders. They are incapable of thinking for themselves. And when you have virtually everyone in the financial industry exhorting you to hold onto stocks “because stocks are a good long term investment” its not difficult to see why almost everybody got creamed in the past year. Of course, a lot of people have made huge amounts of money in the past year. These people are the select few who can think for themselves. Needless to say, they are also smart enough to keep a low profile.
Yve • December 28th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
I think the cost of education is a red herring. The quality of education depends on the importance put upon it in the home and the environment provided for ideas to flourish. My grandmother was a school teacher in a one room school house in Saskatchewan. The majority of her students went on to higher education, several of her students attaining positions such as lawyers, physicians & one who ended up working for NASA on the space programme. All of this without the aid of computers, individualized learning programmes & ritalin. Public libraries were valued, free inquiry was valued and no one was stuck in front of a television all night. The quality of education has been dumbed down to a shameful level; this in the face of all of the so called technological advances. Throw out your television and read to your kids.
Yve • December 28th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Vote with your wallet. Separate your needs from your wants. I have a boycott list a mile long and it hasn’t hurt my lifestyle one iota. In fact I am freer than ever from the influences that would see me in debt and enslaved. I have what I need and what I don’t have, I don’t want. Simple.
The Alarmist • December 29th, 2008 at 3:58 am
Gee, Mission Accomplished !
The Alarmist • December 29th, 2008 at 4:21 am
How about this to the tune of ‘Born in the USA’ ?Shorn, in the USA,Shorn in the USA,I was Shorn in the USAI’m an overtaxed sheep in the USA.I had a banker at Lehman,He was blown to pieces by Hank Paulson.Stuff me into FICA’Cos my IRA’s gone.I was Shorn in the USA,Shorn in the USA[ad naseum]
scvblwxq • December 31st, 2008 at 10:18 pm
I think prices in China and India are far less than in the US, UK allowing them to be middle class with one-third or incomes.
Guest • December 31st, 2008 at 10:30 pm
In a generation most of our(US,EU) lost-cost production should by automated. Fusion energy(controlled H-Bomb) production should have replaced oil, coal and bio(fusion neutrons are being produced now and much more energy out than in should occur in 2009 in the US and 2014 in Europe) fusion energy plants should follow shortly(5 years). Social unrest will be the prime problem with less need for workers.















