Turkish Youth (un)Employment
I am continuing with yesterday’s shameless self-advertising, but this time it is in English: You can find my comments in the article The New Young Turks: Over-Educated, Tech-Savvy, and Jobless by Justin Vela. I would like to make some clarifications to some of the points raised in the article.
I would put the main problems preventing youth from being employed (other than demographics) into two main categories:
First, there are the regulatory problems such as high severance pay and difficulty of temp./part-time employment. It is true that these hurt all workers looking for work, but they tend to hurt young university graduates trying to enter the work force for the first time more. Then, there is the overall quality of university graduates. Here, I commented to Justin on the (lack of) business-university relationships and the inability of most universities to give their students the basic skills required by businesses, but there is even a more major problem- the general quality of the students. Just look at the two comments below the article and you’ll see what I mean. Eren Ocakverdi of Yapi Kredi Research expands upon this point to criticize the article:
“Unfortunately, over-education stems from the duration and therefore does not represent the quality or content of the curriculum. It is true that we have many graduates today than we had 15-20 years ago. I think this article misses the most fundamental and relevant issues, since it focuses mainly on the structural and regulatory problems in the labor market. However, as you know, tertiary education is much more than that. Supply and demand mismatch here is beyond the simple context of quantity, needless to say. So, maybe we should start discussing educational reform along with constitutional reform. Turkey’s performance on PISA scores might give you a better idea (and hint) on where to start.”
Eren’s point on the PISA scores, if I didn’t misunderstand him, is that the problem goes much beyond universities: The students already have no skills when they enter universities, and that it is difficult for the universities to mend things at that point. This is a point I am well aware of, as it was brought up many many times during my World Bank consulting work on higher education-business relationships. However, it doesn’t change the fact that almost all institutions of higher education are doing a lousy job in making their students hirable. There are great anecdotes in the World Bank report if you are interested.
Of course, then the billion-dollar question is why? Sometimes, it is lack of adequate staff, equipment and resources. But more often than not, it is lack of incentives, as all universities aspire to be top research universities. Anyway, I am digressing too much; I would urge the interested reader to go through the World Bank report. It is a bit outdated now, but the ideas still work.
Changing gears, @burak_tekes had made an interesting point over at Twitter:
One interesting thing abt TR unemp stats is that the share of long-term unemp (36+ mo) has come down significantly since 05. & short-term (1-12mos) gone up hence a more vibrant job mkt. Maybe the situation is not as bad it’s portrayed in the article.
Sorry for the short-hand Twitter-speak, but I never ever edit quotes… Anyway, Burak was kind enough to send me this info. as a chart, which I have updated for him:
The numbers are just shares in total- I was too lazy to convert it to percentages… Anyway, the picture is not as stark if you group duration as less and more than one year, but Burak’s point is still valid:
But I would still be careful from jumping to conclusions on what this trend means. It could as well be a discouraged worker effect, or God-knows-what… BTW, I am not sure how Eren’s point on overeducation and duration fits into this picture, but I will let him explain that for me when he sees this post…
14 Responses to “Turkish Youth (un)Employment”
Wise up Mr Grayling: youth unemployment is no mere distraction • November 18th, 2011 at 11:56 pm
[...] Turkish youth (un)employment part-time employment. It is true that these hurt all workers looking for work, but they tend to hurt young university graduates trying to enter the work force for the first time more. Then, there is the overall quality of university graduates. … Read more on EconoMonitor [...]
ErenOcakverdi • November 19th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
As you should know, there are certain and strict character limits for such comment sections. I will try to explain my point only once and with multiple comments.
ErenOcakverdi • November 19th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
My comment was written in somewhere else and for someone else. It was intended to be seen only for a certain group of people. So, you should have asked me before moving it to your blog and making it public.
The comment was only a “personal opinion” based on “personal” observations and experience. Myself is also an over-educated Turk (according to the article) and come from a long line of teachers who have been serving at all stages of our education system (i.e. primary, secondary and tertiary), but I cannot (and do not) classify myself as an expert on the issue.
And I am well aware of all the points that the article mentions, as they were brought up many many times during my TURKONFED consulting work on vocational education-business relationships. I worked with international higher education data and compared Turkish universities with those of other developing and developed countries in the world in my graduation thesis (BSc). Still, I cannot (and do not) consider myself as an expert on the issue.
ErenOcakverdi • November 19th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Fortunately, I do not have a reputation of “knowing too much about too many things”, and would like to keep it that way. If you truly had wanted to have my “personal” opinion on the subject, then you would have sent me an e-mail or simply called me on the phone as you did several times on different occasions.
As you know very well, I prefer to do some (scientific) research and build a proper analytical framework before participating into a discussion or writing a research note. I refrain from jumping to conclusions unless I am able to back my ideas with some concrete analysis. The same principle applies here, so I should only elaborate on my “very subjective” point of views on the subject.
You definitely did misunderstand me on my point on PISA scores. Here is my simple logic: Students with high PISA scores tends to go the college. We do not have too many students with sufficient (not even high) PISA scores. However, we do have too many college graduates. So at some point, universities must accept the fact that not all of their students have basic cognitive skills required for a formal college education.
ErenOcakverdi • November 19th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
My point on over-education and duration does not fit into that picture, simply because it tries to find an answer to a completely different question. The article implicitly questions why over-educated (whatever that means) young Turks are not able to find jobs in their field of specialty. Since over-education guarantees only long years of schooling (duration) not over-qualification, then it could mean that there is more to it than meets the eye.
ErenOcakverdi • November 19th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
Barely a month ago, there was news about South Korean president Lee Myung-bak attempting to discourage students from going to college. He said that about 82 percent of South Korean high school grads headed to college, but there weren’t enough jobs that require a degree or pay enough to justify the expense. He stated that:” reckless entrance into college is bringing huge losses to families and the country alike.” They believe that “South Korean students are told that if they graduate from college, they're assured of a bright future and high-paying job. Then, they find themselves unemployed”. Sounds familiar? Despite all the educational success, The South Korean government is now desperately trying to change the societal notion that success requires a college degree. So it might be an interesting case to look at…
ErenOcakverdi • November 19th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Structural and regulatory problems do not (and cannot) explain the whole picture. Maybe there are few more questions to be raised: Why do we have many Business Administration departments, but not enough Mathematical Engineering departments? How do universities decide to open a department? Do they take into account the potential demand for their graduates? To what degree our students were aware of the consequences of their choices for college? Why a Mechatronics Engineer prefers to work as a sales representative in a FMCG company? Why a graduate with an Economics background expects to find a job in Public Relations field in the first place? How many jobs in the market genuinely require a formal college education? So on so forth…
ErenOcakverdi • November 19th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
The issue at hand is quite complicated than one can think and goes beyond the rigidities in the labor market. I think I have said enough to explain my very very subjective opinions. I do not want to continue this discussion over your blog, so please send me an e-mail or call me if you have any further questions or comments on my "personal thoughts". Otherwise, I really have no time for this…
edeliveli • November 19th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Thanks for the detailed comments; I really appreciate you have taken the time to write such a thorough explanation.
I responded to your comments over at the blog, including why I had honored your request to continue this at a private channel:
http://www.economonitor.com/emredeliveli/2011/11/…
More on Turkish youth unemployment | | UTILITY DOCUMENTSUTILITY DOCUMENTS • November 19th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
[...] Ocakverdi of Yapi Kredi Research pleasantly answered yesterday’s question (although his difference were not unequivocally kind during all, some-more on that later) on girl [...]
UTILITY DOCUMENT » More on Turkish youth unemployment » UTILITY DOCUMENT • November 19th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
[...] Ocakverdi of Yapi Kredi Research pleasantly answered yesterday’s question (although his difference were not unequivocally kind during all, some-more on that later) on girl [...]
RESUME » More on Turkish youth unemployment » RESUME • November 19th, 2011 at 11:23 pm
[...] Ocakverdi of Yapi Kredi Research pleasantly answered yesterday’s question (although his difference were not unequivocally kind during all, some-more on that later) on girl [...]
More on Turkish youth unemployment - DOCUMENTS – DOCUMENTS • November 20th, 2011 at 2:19 am
[...] Ocakverdi of Yapi Kredi Research pleasantly answered yesterday’s question (although his difference were not really kind during all, some-more on that later) on girl [...]
EconoMonitor : The Kapali Carsi » Turkish youth (un)employment « Careers Employment Direct • November 22nd, 2011 at 6:00 am
[...] original post here: EconoMonitor : The Kapali Carsi » Turkish youth (un)employment Comments [...]

















